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SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA

FOR THE COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES

DEPARTMENT N0. 57

 

CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY OF CALIFORNIA,

Plaintiff,

vs.

GERALD ARMSTRONG,

Defendant.


MARY SUE HUBBARD,

Intervenor.


HON. PAUL G. BRECKENRIDGE, JR., JUDGE

 

)                No. C 420153
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REPORTERS' TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS

Tuesday, June 5, 1984

Volume 25

Pages 4365 to 4547, incl.

APPEARANCES:

(See Appearance Page.)

 

 

 

 

NANCY HARRIS, CSR NO. 644
HERBERT CANNON, CSR N0. 1923
OFFICIAL REPORTERS

 

 

 

   

 

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APPEARANCES:

 

For the Plaintiff:

 

 

PETERSON & BRYNAN
BY: JOHN G. PETERSON
8530 Wilshire Boulevard
Suite 407
Beverly Hills, California 90211
(213) 659-9965

-and-

ROBERT N. HARRIS
The Oviatt Building
617 South Olive Street
Suite 915
Los Angeles, California 90014
(213) 626-3271

 

For the Intervenor:

LITT & STORMER
BY: BARRETT S. LITT
Paramount Plaza
3550 Wilshire Boulevard
Suite 1200
Los Angeles, California 90010
(213) 386-4303

-and-

BARRETT S. LITT
BY: MICHAEL S. MAGNUSON
The Oviatt Building
617 South Olive street
Suite 1000
Los Angeles, California 90014
(213) 623-7511

 

For the Defendant:

CONTOS & BUNCH
BY: MICHAEL J. FLYNN
 -and-
JULIA DRAGOJEVIC
5855 Topanga Canyon Boulevard
Suite 400
Woodland Hills, California 91367
(213) 716-9400

 

 

   

 

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CT 4498

Q And, incidentally, what were your wages at ASI?

A I think we had a base salary of $160 which we

actually got clear something like $121 after taxes which was

to be used to pay for -- well, $20 was to go to our rent of

living at the Complex which was the Scientology Complex.

If we ate our meals there we had to pay $1.75

per meal. It was used for any medical that we made need,

any clothing that you had to buy, any pressing or cleaning

of our suits or for our general, you know, anything else that

we needed.

Q The money was taken for those items out of your

wages?

A No. We were given a check for $121 and, you know,

some cents. And we were just obligated to either -- you know,

if we got sick, we were obligated to save enough money out

of that particular portion of it to be used for future dental

or, you know, medical needs or vitamins, whatever. And we

were obligated to, you know, give $20 a week over to the

organization at the Complex.

Q Was that, to your understanding, the minimum wage

at the time?

A I really didn't think of it at the time. It

couldn't -- if I figured how many hours I worked, which was

probably 80 to 100 hours a week, I'm sure it didn't equal

the minimum wage which I know to be $3.35 or something

today.

Q All right. Now, at some point in time you were

ordered into a security check; is that correct?

 

 

   

 

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CT 4499

A I had several.

Q How many did you have while you were at ASI?

A Two prior to leaving and one as I -- when I

wasn't at ASI. I had been removed from post and I had it

over at the Complex.

Q The two you had at ASI, what happened in those?

A Well, the first one was actually out at CMO Int

which was at Gilman Hot Springs. They were suspecting that

something was going, you know, awry with me, my post

functions.

I was not a stellar person on post and I wasn't

performing the way David Miscavige thought I should perform.

And I was awoken up in the middle of the night,

like 4 o'clock in the morning one Sunday morning and taken

into a Sec Check with three people, with Jesse Prince, who was

the auditor for awhile, Terri Gamboa, and Doug Hay.

 

 
 

 

   

 

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CT 4500

After a while Jesse had to leave and Terri

became the auditor and Doug Hay were there, of which they

kept falling asleep on me. Both of then were sitting across

from me, not there, just completely asleep, and I'd have to

knock on my desk or go (indicating) make noises to wake them

up.

Of course, they were trying to find out what

was going on, you know, why was I committing these overts

on post, an overt being even failure to do your job as an

overt of omission because you are omitting not to do your

stellar-type job.

Of course, I was flabbergasted in the sense,

first of all I was being the term that later came into

being, the term gang banged sec checked because there was

more than one person. Nothing in policy, but then to have

my auditor fall asleep on me.

That was nothing compared to the sec check that

happened around the 30th of October, around 10 o'clock at

night at ASI at 6464 Sunset Boulevard.

Q This was on the premises of ASI?

A Yes, in the offices of ASI.

Q And this was a for profit corporation under

California law to your understanding?

A That is correct, I think I was even an officer

because I had signed some documents with no date on it so that

if I was ever removed from post, they could, in turn, put

a date on it or if anything ever happened, which was a

common church policy which I observed even in Clearwater

 

 

   

 

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CT 4501

many times.

Q What happened in this October security check?

A Well, certain events happened prior to that.

There was a large gold deal that was suspect of going sour,

a few hundred thousand dollars which I had no knowledge of,

which all of a sudden Doug Hay, who was my senior who was

responsible, tells the DM, which was David Miscavige, and he

just blew, was just - - he went psychotic.

Prior to that he supposedly found out that I

had used a girl by the name of Ellen Reynolds to do some

audits on LRH's accounts to bring them up to date give

enough data to the accountant that was used by LRH,

Marty Greenburg, so he could file his 198l tax returns

which we had already gotten the maximum number of extensions.

Q Well, so - -

A These two things together really turned DM

into a psycho again. I mean, it was like a common occurrence

as far as I was concerned because it is like he exhibited

this every time I was in the office.

Q And David Miscavige held what post in Author

Services, Inc.?

A Well, all reports that I wrote up to LRH

would go through him and Terri Gamboa, Terri being the ED

of ASI and David Miscavige COB, Chairman of the Board, or

I would say GM, one of the two. Sort of like it didn't really

make much difference. He was the top dog and there was no

doubt that he was running ASI and the church.

Q All right, now did Miscavige order you into a

 

 

   

 

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CT 4502

security check?

A He immediately ordered me into a security check.

I was dragged into a room the size of this witness stand

which also had a table in it, and then Nan Starky was sitting

across from me with the door behind her which was open.

There was maybe about a foot of room on my left side.

All down the hallway the whole staff of ASI

were there, including Terri Gamboa, Norman Starky, Pat Brice,

Lyman Spurlock, David Miscavige, Fran Harris, Fred Harris,

Becky Hay.

Q How long did the security check last?

A Ten hours. It lasted from about 10 o'clock

in the evening to 8 o'clock in the morning. About 6 o'clock

in the morning the staff of ASI left because they had to go

out to CMO Int.

During this time I was just bombarded with

these questions asking who was I working for. Was I working

for the CIA? Was I a plant? Was I working for the FBI?

Where was all the money I stole. Where are all the jewels

I stole.

David Miscavige would sort of peek his head in

when he would be there for maybe a half hour and leave. He

would peek his head in and look at the meter and say, "Ah hah,

something read there. What crimes did you commit? What does

that mean?"

It was like an intimidating type thing.

He said, "I am going to fix you." Put a wad of tobacco

back in his mouth. Gave a bit to Norman, and he

 

 

   

 

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CT 4503

was continually popping in and out. They were still

trying to find all these things I had done.

Then, after, somewhere between fifteen

minutes to a half hour, he came in and said, "This is the last

time. Tell the truth. Come clean."

Prior to that Norman Starky threatened me

that if I didn't come clean, the same thing that happened

to Eric Wallery and to Peter Gillam, who were church members

at Gilman Hot Springs, which was an intimidation because

they apparently had embezzled some money and stole some

silver, and they were threatened with - - in fact, it is

by Mr. Heller, I was told, at Lenske, Lenske & Heller because

he had connections in the D.A's office, that they were going

to make sure that I spent a good deal of time in jail and

he said, "Don't worry about the evidence. We will find people

that will testify against you, no matter what crimes we come

up with." Otherwise, they were essentially saying that they

were going to find witnesses to perjure themselves because

I knew I hadn't committed anything.

Anyway, then he came in at a later time and

spit in my face with tobacco juice during a sec check, which

is heresy, if you want to think of Hubbard as a god and his

technology, and then Norman did the same thing.

Q Norman Starky?

A Norman Starky did the same thing, and I had

sort of been good friends with Norman for a good number of

years. For a long time he was the captain of the yacht Apollo,

you know, and we always had a good relationship.

 

 

   

 

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CT 4504

Q Now, was this security check to your knowledge

intended for you to get some spiritual gain, Mr. Schomer?

A Well, I was going to be facetious and say

maybe on some other planet, but it couldn't possibly have

been. There is nothing in policy to this day that I know of

that authorises or condones a gang bang sec check of more

than one person. A sec check, even though they say they

can use the data against you for further action, there is

nothing in policy that says more than one person is there.

 

 

   

 

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CT 4505

Q All right. Now --

A And s[p]it in your face is, you know, that is --

well, I have already said it. So --

Q Now, was Mrs. Gamboa present throughout most of

the security check?

A She was present through most of it and knew I was

there from 10 o'clock when they started until they left

to go to CMO Int to the rest of the staff at 6 o'clock in

the morning.

So her testimony that it only lasted an hour was

BS, completely fabricated.

Q And Mr. Spurlock, was he there through most of

it?

A I just saw him once or twice. He never actually

came close to me and fired questions like the rest of

the staff were doing and told to do and blaming me for possibly,

you know, our gross income to LRH being down and, you know,

that possible loss of bonuses that was going to be lost that

was money out of their pockets because of bonuses that they

wouldn't make.

Q Were you familiar with a situation in which

James Isaacson under power of attorney for LRH had lost some

money in an investment?

A Yes.

Q And did L. Ron Hubbard that several hundred

thousand dollar loss in the investments be billed to Jim

Isaacson?

A Yes. I saw the documents.

 

 

   

 

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CT 4506

MR. HARRIS: What is the relevance?

I move to strike it, Your Honor.

THE COURT: What is the relevance, counsel?

MR. FLYNN: Control, Your Honor. These people all were

supposedly working for an organization called ASI; at the

same time they were running the Church of Scientology. And

here is the client of the corporation ASI billing one of the

employees for lost investments.

THE COURT: When did this purportedly happen? Was this

after you were at ASI?

THE WITNESS: Yes. This was during the time I was at

ASI.

THE COURT: I'll let the answer stand.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: During the period of time --

after the security check were you locked up?

A Yes. I was locked up under guard for the next

two days.

Q Who was the guard?

A It was actually an auditor. His name slips my

mind right now. I probably have it in my briefcase that I

wrote it down. But I am not sure.

But he really didn't have any knowledge of why

he was guarding me. But he was --

Q At some point in time did you manage to leave?

A Yes. On Sunday morning, he -- while I was in

the shower he said he was going down to change clothes because

he thought he was guarding me for some spiritual reason,

so I could get some good rest to further my spiritual release

 

 

   

 

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CT 4507

through auditing.

Q Did he tell you that?

A Yes, he did.

Q All right.

A And the minute he told me that and I heard the

door slam, I got out of the shower; got dressed and got the

hell out of there.

Q Where did you go?

A I went to a friend of mine's house, Olivia

Washours.

Q Had you left all your belongings behind?

A Left with the clothes on my back.

Q At some time did you return to get your

belongings?

A Well, I called up Nan Starkey, who was the

organization officer, and actually the only one that would

be around because everybody else had gone around to Gilman

Hot Springs; I reached her at ASI and told her I was not

blowing per se; I had just had to go out and get some

exteriorization because I was in fear of what had to happen,

what was going to happen to me. I had to think things over.

She immediately started attacking me and told

me that all of CMO was out looking for me; I should get my

ass back immediately.

I said, "Wait a minute."

She kept spouting out at me.

I said, "I'll be back sometime later."

Q What was your fear, Mr. Schomer?

 

 

   

 

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CT 4508

A I was in fear of my life, knowing I had been Sec

Checked for 10 hours, not allowed to get up to go to the

bathroom; not allowed to sleep; not allowed to have a drink

of water; not allowed anything, just questions firing at me.

You tell me what I'm supposed to have done, and

I'll tell you if I did it or not.

And they wouldn't allow me that type of a thing.

I didn't know what they would do. And, you know, knowing

of things like I had mentioned about, well, the threat that

Norman Starky made to me about he was going to put me in jail

and they were going to throw the key away and have these

witnesses say what I supposedly did, to be convicted or

whatever, I mean, there are many, many things including me.

being assassinated or wiped out, you know, that entered my

mind.

Q All right.

Now, were you fearful that they would come and

get you if you didn't come back?

A I knew if they knew where I was at the time they

would come and get me.

 

 

   

 

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CT 4509

Q Then what happened?

A I was - - when I hung up the phone, I was

sort of trembling and I didn't really know what I was

going to do, and then I decided that I was going to go - -

I was going to flee the city for a while, and I made

reservations to go down to Miami to stay with my brother,

and I called my brother up and I said I was coming in that

evening and that I'd be down to see him.

Q And then what happened after that?

A Then I went for a ride with Olivia. Went

down to the beach. I was just trying to destimulate a

little a bit, and we were riding around in my car and on the

way back my car broke down and the fuel pump was broken.

Q Well at some point - -

A I parked my car and that evening she took me to

the airport or, no, she didn't take me. Another gal that

was visiting came to visit her took me to the airport, and

I fled to Miami.

Q Now at some point did you return?

A Yes, I did.

Q And when did you return?

A I returned 10 days later.

Q And for what purpose.did you return?

A Well, because Terri Gamboa - - well, my

daughter, who is still in the CMO in Scientology to this

date, called me up and asked me what was happening because

I had told her I was leaving, and she called me up and told

me I should come back.

 

 

 

   

 

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CT 4510

Then, Terri Gamboa got on the phone and told

me that I should come back immediately, and I told her well

I'd think about it. But I had planned on coming back seven

days later.

Q Terri Gamboa was with your daughter when this

took place?

A Yes.

Q Did you get concerned for the security of your

daughter?

A Oh, yeah. I really didn't know what was going

on. My daughter, who was actually working as a church

representative in ASI at the time to receive communications

between the church and ASI, and they had it worked out some

way so it wasn't sort of an inurement situation, but she

later was fired or kicked out of ASI for being a security

risk.

Q. So you returned to ASI. Then what happened?

A I returned to ASI. I was under armed - - not

armed guard. I was put under guard, of which I stayed until

basically I left.

Q How long were you under guard?

A Well I left the 23rd of December, and this - -

I came back around the 10th of November, telling them that

I had to be - - I had to be in Boulder because I had told

my sister I was going to be there for Thanksgiving. I was

in such fear of my life that I even told my sister who

happened to be coming down to visit my brother, who stayed

with my brother in Florida, that if I didn't call her every

 

 

   

 

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CT 4511

other night that she should call the L.A. Police Department

and tell them that I was kidnapped and being held captive in

the Complex.

Q Now - -

A Which they didn't know at all during the

time that I was - - I didn't use that as a threat to them

to stop them from holding me.

Q Now, throughout this period of time it was

your understanding that you were an employee of a for profit

corporation?

A Yes. ASI definitely was, right.

Q All right, now, just very briefly, was there

a communication link, a direct communication link to

Mary Sue Hubbard from ASI while you were there?

A Yes, many, every week.

Q And did an individual named Nevil Potter

bring her communications to you?

A Yes, any communication that might have to go

to LRH or - - would come from her via him and would be given

to Terri Gamboa or to DM. Usually Terri because DM wasn't

there all the time and anything that had to go to her went

via him back to Mary Sue, and I know this was - - I saw

various documents. I heard DM and Norman Starky and Terri

Gamboa talk very derrogatorily about her, using very filthy

language, calling - -

Q But there was a direct communication link?

A Yes.

Q Was there any commercial mail service involved?

 

 

   

 

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CT 4512

A No commercial mail service.

Q Was there a direct communications link to

L. Ron Hubbard?

A Definitely was.

Q What was that?

A Well, every week we wrote our reports and we

even made a tape that went up to LRH of ASI staff meetings,

telling him - - every person would tell him of the win[]s and

the flaps for the week and the stats and so forth. We'd

be up all Thursday night writing reports to him which were

then critiqued by our seniors and DM and Terri, and then

later Pat Broeker out at CMO Int at Gilman Hot Springs.

 

 

   

 

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CT 4513

And then it would go to LRH; in fact, a routing

was not to LRH, but, of course, they always had the asterisk

which meant LRH. So that if anybody found it, it could never

really be proved that that was, you know, that it went to

him. But the asterisk was him. And anything that came back

from him, you know, had the asterisk down at the bottom of

the report.

But many times there were reports that I would

write that would come back and then his handwriting would

be at the top which is, you know, very distinguishable,

saying, you know, "Very well done," or writing two or three

lines or something in his handwriting, you know.

Q What were the actual circumstances whereby these

reports were collected and transmitted?

A The circumstances?

Q Right. And where did you go and what did you

do?

A Well, every week on Thursday after 2 o'clock,

which was the end of the Scientology stat period, we would

finish off our work week and write our reports,

One big thing that I had to do was I had this

transaction and balance sheet which concerned all of LRH's

assets and any monies that were received that week and what

bank accounts and so forth they went into; plus my weekly

report of what things that I had done during the week and

what project I was working on all went -- after I finished

writing them, then they would go to my senior. And I had

two at times. I had different -- I mean initially it was

 

 

   

 

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CT 4514

Fran Harris. And later it became Doug Hay. And from him

it would go to Terri Gamboa and from her it would go to DM.

And then he would review all of the reports and then we were

out at CMO Int, he would take them all in a box because they

all went in a special box. And he would take them to a cabana

at Gilman Hot Springs where Pat Broeker was.

I know Pat Broeker was there because I met with

him personally in that cabana.

But often when I was going down to the cantina

to eat, in the darkness I would look through the blind and

see him in there talking to Terri Gamboa, Norman Starky, and

often Lyman Spurlock.

And I knew they would then have to go up to LRH

because they came back, you know, to ASI. And LRH had seen

them and written comments or wrote another report back to

me telling me what to do, you know, for the next week, that

type of thing.

Q And this was going on on a weekly basis?

A On a weekly basis.

There were also some times checks that I would

have to write, a CSW to LRH so that money could be transferred

from either his foreign accounts or his local accounts to

ASI accounts to be used to either pay his bills or for

investments or maybe to open up a new bank account or a new

broker account where his signature would be required.

Q Now, was ASI billing Orgs around the world at

that time for management duties for the Church?

MR. HARRIS: I'll object to that, Your Honor.

 

 

   

 

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CT 4515

THE COURT: I think I'll sustain the objection.

MR. FLYNN: That is all I have, Your Honor.

THE COURT: You may cross-examine.

MR. FLYNN: One other question, Your Honor.

Q When did you first meet me or talk to me,

Mr. Schomer?

A The first time I met you was --

What is today? I don't remember what day it is.

Tuesday. I met you Sunday night. I met you late

Sunday afternoon when I came into Los Angeles.

 

See also:
Armstrong note re: Homer Schomer's Testimony

 

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