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FOR THE COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES

DEPARTMENT NO. 57        HON. PAUL G. BRECKENRIDGE, JR., JUDGE

  (See Appearances page.)

VOLUME 11

Pages 1740 - 1895

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APPEARANCES:

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-o0o-

THE COURT: Good morning, Counsel.

MR. FLYNN: Good morning.

MR. LITT: Good morning, Your Honor.

THE COURT: All right, in the case on trial let the

record reflect that counsel are present.

The witness has retaken the stand.

GERALD ARMSTRONG,

the witness on the stand at the time of the adjournment,

having been previously duly sworn, resumed the stand and

testified further as follows:

THE CLERK: Just state your name again for the record,

sir. You are still under oath.

THE WITNESS: Gerald Armstrong.

THE COURT: You may continue.

MR. LITT: May I raise one preliminary matter before

we proceed?

THE COURT: Yes.

MR. LITT: Your Honor, I have in my hand an article

from the Clearwater Sun which I can provide a copy of to the

court in which Mr. Armstrong is quoted as describing the

particular contents and quoting from the contents of documents

that remain under seal at this time, and we would ask that the

order of the court, to the extent it is not clear which we

thought it was, that these materials remain sealed means that.

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The contents of them are not to be discussed,

particularly contents that have now been reviewed in preparation

for this trial.

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It is just improper. These are not general

statements by Mr. Armstrong.

I can provide the court the quote, but he purports

to be quoting specifically from sealed documents. I can give

the court -- I have bracketed in red the section that I'm

specifically referring to.

THE COURT: All right.

Mr. Flynn.

MR. FLYNN: Our view, Your Honor, is that this issue

was extensively litigated during the year and a half this case

has been proceeding. And it has come up in the context of two

contempt actions against myself and Ms. Dragojevic.

Judge Cole specifically addressed it. There

is a transcript in which Judge Cole specifically said that

he is not placing any restrictions on Mr. Armstrong's First

Amendment rights to discuss whatever is in the documents.

The preliminary injunction only prohibits the

dissemination of the documents themselves.

I have not read the article. I would like to

see a copy of what Mr. Litt is referring to.

Is there a particular area, Mr. Litt, that you

are concerned about?

MR. LITT: Yes. If you give it to me, Mr. Flynn,

I'll bracket it for you.

MR. FLYNN: But this issue was addressed at length over

the last year and a half. And we believe that the Supreme

Court cases make it abundantly clear that no restriction can

be placed on Mr. Armstrong's First Amendment Rights to discuss

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THE COURT: Well, I am inclined to agree with that.

I don't know what the clear and present danger is of that

happening. There is no prior restraint. In the absence

of some clear and present danger, some serious harm being

involved now that we are trying this case, I don't know what

is going to come into evidence, And I don't know what is not

going to come into evidence.

I would think that Mr. Armstrong would be well

advised at this point to refrain from discussing the matter

until the case is completed. I think once the case is

completed, then we know what is in evidence; we know what is

not in evidence.

I don't want to get sidetracked at this point.

And I'm going to have to deal with some of these problems

later on anyway.

Let's go forward.

What is it you want me to do?

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MR. LITT: I would like, Your Honor, that it be clear

that the sealed order of the court means that documents that

are under seal may not be quoted publicly. That is what a

seal means.

The defendant has notes and probably large

numbers of verbatim copies. Can they walk out and memorize

them and from memory say this says this and this says that?

This article purports to quote from the documents

which at this time are under seal.

THE COURT: Is there any existing order relating to

Mr. Armstrong, any kind of a gag order?

MR. LITT: There is an order that says --

THE COURT: A gag order, we have such a thing as a

gag order when there is a clear and present danger of

somebody not getting a fair trial. I don't see any problem

in that regard here.

MR. LITT: That is not what I am referring to. There

is a preliminary injunction.

Mr. Flynn says that this issue has been resolved.

This issue has not been resolved. The preliminary injunction

requires that the documents be under seal and that they be

used, the materials be used only for purposes of this case.

Going through the documents and then walking

out into the hallway or to the hallway or to the -- some hotel --

THE COURT: As I understand it, there are procedures

set forth whereby other litigants in other cases may have

access to the documents.

MR. LITT: They must go through a special master

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determination of what is discoverable. There is also a

balance of the privacy. They must establish revelancy.

They must establish no privilege.

There is a judicial procedure designed specifically

to protect the privacy and other privileged aspects of these

materials. When Mr. Armstrong walks out after having had

the opportunity to/go through the documents and quotes from them,

that judicial oversight is gone.

THE COURT: I have a little trouble with the whole

concept. Here is a man who, according to his testimony,

lived within the organization for over 10 years. He's got a

vivid memory. It is obvious, abundantly clear that this

particular individual is blessed with a vivid memory. He

remembers things and he remembers things in detail, and I

don't see how anybody can order him not to talk about things

that he underwent or claims he underwent during -- he is

subject to civil process for libel or slander if he does

slander the organization or individuals within it, but I

don't know that I can -- it seems to me we are getting side-

tracked. Let's go ahead and try the case and resolve these

matters.

I don't see how his statements to some reporter--

I don't know when they were made or what the context was.

MR. LITT: According to the article they were made

sipping a martini at a hotel.

THE COURT: Well --

MR. HARRIS: Sounds good.

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MR. LITT: Well, I just want to make it clear, Your

Honor, our position is that the preliminary injunction

presently in effect prohibits this. That there is ample

authority that while the case goes forward that the specific

contents -- I am not talking about what is in his memory

from what he remembers when he was there in 1980 or '81,

but going back through the documents and then coming out and

quoting from them or purporting to quote from them and utilizing

the fact of continued access because he is a defendant in

this case, we would just like to make it clear we don't

think that is permissible. We think it is improper.

The documents that he is referring to when the

court sees them are the most single set of private materials

in the whole of the 10,000 pages, and it is no coincidence

that it is those that they choose to make reference to.

THE COURT: I think the witness would be well advised

to refrain from such comments during the pendency of the trial.

If he is in violation or apparent violation of an order, you

can seek some OSC re contempt, but at the same time I feel

we may be getting sidetracked here and let's go ahead and

try the case.

Mr. Flynn, you may continue.

MR. FLYNN: Thank you, Your Honor. We will abide by

the court's advise.

DIRECT EXAMINATION (Resumed)

BY MR. FLYNN:

Q Now, Mr. Armstrong, before we get into the

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last Friday.

First of all with regard to the documents that

you sent to me and the documents you sent to Contos & Bunch,

would you describe to this court the circumstances under which

you possessed those documents at the time you sent them to me

and to Contos & Bunch?

A Somewhere around March or April of 1982

Omar Garrison again asked me to assist him in the research

on the biography.

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The reason that he expressed for this was

because he was not getting the desired assistance from the

man who had, I suppose, replaced me at the -- on the

biography project or doing the research.

Q That was who, Mr. Armstrong?

A Vaughn Young.

So I agreed with Mr. Garrison. There was a

period of time around this time when I was not employed at

the law firm and it was just prior -- I worked at the law

firm for a while. And I continued on helping Mr. Garrison

for a bit.

Previous to that I had only been assisting

Mr. Garrison with his other books. I was obtaining

printers' quotes having to do with another book which he was

publishing at that time.

So during March and April two things happened.

First of all, he was in some fear that the organization was

going to steal the materials which he had for the biography

at that time. So he had me copy a great deal of those

materials, particularly materials which he intended to use

in the biography which he felt he would have to quote from

extensively. So those materials, I copied for him over a

period of probably a month. I did them a bit at a time as I

was able to. There was quite -- I don't know, maybe ten,

fifteen, twenty thousand pages. So there was quite a lot of

material. And it costs quite a bit of money.

I was maintaining for him at that time an office

in Costa Mesa. He was paying half the rent on that office.

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I lived with my wife and --

Q You say he was paying half the rent; was there a

company that he had that paid half the rent on the

apartment?

A Yes. It was the publishing company, a company

called Ralston Pilot, Incorporated. And Ralston paid the

rent and, I guess, in a way I was working for Ralston.

He did not pay me anything during that time; in

fact, he didn't pay for the copies that I had made. The

reason for this was because he was, apparently, broke at the

time or did not have a lot of money. So he was in a bit of

a bind.

He also gave me during that time a great

quantity of originals, the unsorted originals which I had

given him some months previously.

Q Before you left the organization?

A Yes.

He had not been able to go through these things.

And he wanted them sorted out as well as I could.

So I was doing both of these things as best I

could. I transcribed a series of tapes for him during that

period and I arranged from interviews for him during that

period. And I continued to work with the biographical

materials which I maintained in the place in Costa Mesa.

In the end of May Mr. Garrison drove up to Utah.

In fact, I went with him at that time. And it was around

that period, around the end of May, when I obtained from

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in the legal battle which I felt was going to begin at that

point. And he gave me virtually everything that I asked

for. And I had in the apartment a great deal more material.

And it was this material which finally ended up with your

office and the office of Contos & Bunch.

Q Now, referring to this letter that you had in

your possession when you came to see me, did you seek advice

as to what should be done with that letter?

A Basically, I had the letter in my briefcase.

And I had been carrying it around for a while and I took the

opportunity while I was seeing you to show you the letter

and to ask you about it.

I had not been able to get it to Mrs. Hubbard

who, at that time, I thought was victimized.

And we discussed, you and I, the letter briefly

at that time.

Q Now, without saying what is in the letter, was

your state of mind at the time that -- was there matter in

the letter that was personal and private to Mrs. Hubbard?

A Yes.

Q And was there another whole area of the letter

that you thought was of immense public interest to members

of the Church of Scientology?

A Yes.

Q And without saying what is in the letter, did

the immense public-interest factor, did that relate to

L. Ron Hubbard's public image and character?

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A Yes.

Q Would you describe the sequence under which you

tried to return the letter to Mrs. Hubbard and the sequence

under which it was placed under seal in this court, the

dates, as best you can recall.

A Okay. Late in the fall of 1981 I attempted a

number of times to communicate to Mrs. Hubbard; my

correspondence was opened.

I sent it in sealed envelopes because that had

been the security custom at the time regarding

communications to her so that they weren't just put on an

open communication line within the organization.

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I sent them sealed. And two of them were opened

and sent back to me. They were held for a while and then

they were sent back to me. And I was communicated to at

that time by two of the people who were in the Special

Project, which was Mr. Hubbard's legal unit, people who took

care of his legal and business affairs. One was Terry

Gamboa and the other was Julia Watson, both of whom told me

at that time that there could be no -- there was no

correspondence, no communicating to Mary Sue.

Q That was October of 1981?

A Approximately October, November.

At the end of December I had a number of

discussions on that subject. I felt like she was being --

that communications were being directly withheld from her.

It was expressed to me as, well, we couldn't

admit to a communication line to her because someone will

try to effect service in one of the civil cases. And to me

at that time that didn't make a lot of sense. I felt that

there was communications being directly withheld for another

reason. It had to do with control of the organization.

So I attempted it during that period.

And then when I left the organization some

months later, I learned from Laurel Sullivan that she was in

communication with Mary Sue Hubbard and had an address.

I then asked Laurel and she confirmed that the

address that she had was still good. And this brought us

into the summer of 1982.

Shortly after that and after the -- after this

 

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Q Was that before the restraining order was

issued?

A Yes. It was before, I believe, anything was

issued in the case.

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Q But had the case begun?

A Yes.

Q Okay. Go ahead.

A So I sent a letter to her to the mailbox, and

I received -- that would have been sometime in August, and

I received back the letter sometime in December. It had gone

to the address and then had been -- then was returned some

months later, some probably five months later, four or five

months later I received back the same envelopes and then we

had a deposition coming up in the beginning of January, the

next year, January 1983, and we just produced it for

Mr. Litt at that time with the intention that he could give

it to Mary Sue or do whatever was proper with it at that

time.

Q So it was returned to you by the postal service

in December '82?

A Right.

Q Now, the original letter or envelope that it

was returned in, did you give that to Mr. Litt?

A Yes, the whole thing.

Q And the date stamp that it was mailed by you

in August '82 was on the envelope?

A Yes.

Q And was there handwriting on the envelope of

someone other than yourself?

A Yes.

Q And did you recognize that handwriting?

A I believe it to be the handwriting or printing

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Q Now, when you were collecting the documents

for the biography project, Mr. Armstrong, what was your

state of mind with regard to what documents were pertinent

to the biography and what were not?

A Well, I considered, and Mr. Garrison considered,

virtually anything pertinent to the biography. He said, he

used the phrase, "Everything is grist for the mill."

He wanted to see virtually everything. He did

not want to see materials which were what we would call

technical materials or policy materials. He was not

interested in doing a work on Dianetics or Scientology. He

was doing a work specifically on the personal life of

L. Ron Hubbard.

You could not extricate Mr. Hubbard, of course,

from Dianetics and Scientology, but that was the thrust of

Mr. Garrison's work, and he wanted virtually anything which

showed where Mr. Hubbard was at a particular time, who he

was in communication with, letters of all descriptions.

He used to use the phrase "Even a laundry list

was grist for the mill." So he wanted virtually everything.

Q Why did you give him originals?

A Well, the situation with originals came up in

November and December of 1981, and it came up simply because

there was a considerable bulk of them. There was no way I

was going to be able to copy them all for him. It didn't

make sense to copy them all for him. Mr. Garrison did not at

that point have an office in the building. He had not had an

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have a desk there anymore.

So, in order for him to sort out what he

considered usable biographically or what he would get from

this mass of materials, there was not going to be a great

deal selected from it, but he wanted to see it.

Mr. Garrison ended up doing the biography

chronologically, and so the materials which I -- the original

materials were principally from 1966 or so onward. There was

very few original materials which predated that.

I had been providing materials as chronologically

as possible. I did the early days first because I thought that

he would want them in that order and that's how we discussed

him. These were later materials and there simply was no way,

no time to copy them all, and it would have been a very

burdensome job because out of those materials there was

relatively little that he would quote from.

Q Now, in November and December of 1981, was it

your understanding or state of mind that you were working for

L. Ron Hubbard and it was L. Ron Hubbard that had the owner-

ship and possession of these materials?

A Right.

Q And was it your state of mind that he had given

permission for those to go to Mr. Garrison?

A Yes.

Q Now, prior to that point in time, had you ever

given originals to Mr. Garrison?

A He may have had some. I don't recall if it

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provided him which were definitely originals. Again, this

would come up if it was too burdensome to copy, so complete

books I provided him in that way.

Q Now, why did some of the materials end up

being sent to me and some of the materials end up being sent

to Contos & Bunch?

A Well, initially everything that I sent was

sent to you and at least part of the reason for that was that

I had not been able to obtain a West Coast attorney at that

point. This didn't happen until sometime in July or August,

at which point I simply delivered to them the bulk of

whatever I had.

I sent it to you as I was able either to

obtain it or copy it or box it up and send it. That is

really how it occurred. There was no more logic to it than

that until the end when I finally just took whatever I had,

cleaned out my house completely, and sent that material to

Contos & Bunch, and that is a relatively random assortment

of stuff which I referred to as junk, but it is a very random

assortment of materials.

Q Why did you retain me as your lawyer?

A Well, I think a lot had to do with -- there

was really a number of reasons.

I had no one inside the organization or I had

heard your name inside the organization, and all I knew was

that you were an SP of the first kind, a very evil person,

and then I had contradictory material from Jim Dincalci,

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his wife had seen you a couple of weeks I think prior to my

decision to go see you. They came back and told me that you

had an extremely good understanding of Scientology, of the

Scientology mind, of our experiences, of what we had gone

through, of what we could expect, and that contrary to what

the organization had said, you were not dedicated to the

destruction of Scientology but were trying in your way and

according to your business to represent your clients who you

felt had been wronged and deserved redress of those wrongs.

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And so it was that and it was also the idea that

I was at that point deprogramming myself, shall we say; going

through the steps of confronting what the organization and

Mr. Hubbard had represented to me for years as being evil and

confronting those things which I had been taught or drilled

were evil and learning that they were not, indeed, evil.

There was another factor -- and this is probably

a very important one, and that is to obtain an attorney to

represent one in a battle with the Scientologists, which I

knew was coming, is a very difficult task. And it was very

difficult with Contos & Bunch.

I think you put a lot of work into it. And

they were extremely reluctant to get involved because of

how wearing the subject is, how esoteric it is and how

difficult it is to even brief an attorney on what an attorney

can expect in the ins and outs and intricacies and the mental

madness that you are dealing with. So that is why --

Q Now, before you left the organization did you

see a document called "The Clearwater Report"?

A Yes.

Q And when did you see that, Mr. Armstrong?

A I saw that, I think it would be, some time in

the fall -- was -- it was the same date, whenever the thing

was -- day or two prior to whenever it was submitted to the

Clearwater City Commission.

Q It was prior to the time it was submitted to

the Clearwater Commission?

A Yes.

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Q Do you know where it came from?

A I don't know specifically. I was told that --

I was shown it in the PR Bureau, GOUS in the Gardian's Office

and that they had someone in close to you and that they had

obtained it. It looked like it was an assembled copy taken

from either trash or rough drafts of the report.

Q Now, do you know there are approximately six or

seven attorneys that authored that report? Was that on the

materials that you saw?

A I don't recall that.

Q Do you recall approximately how long it was?

A What I saw at the time was a pack of material

that would have been about maybe half an inch thick. It was

a lot of materials which I recognized which I had seen earlier

had come from Michael Shannon.

The final Clearwater report which I saw was

probably total of two inches thick.

Q Were the materials in there relating to

L. Ron Hubbard; namely, in this half-inch pile of materials

that you saw while you were inside the organization?

A Yes. That is the material that I was -- I was

actually called to view those materials. The PR people --

and I can't recall who it was, the DGPR US at that time, but

I spoke with him at length. And there was another couple of

PR people in the DGPR office, the Deputy Guardian for Public

Relations in U.S. And he showed this report to me and asked

my opinion about it at that time.

The thing that he was asking particularly about

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And I said that well, from what I had learned

to understand -- from what I understood from information

that I had, the claims which were being made were in fact true

and that we could not continue on -- you could not refute

them with simply Hubbard's statements or denial because there

was too much evidence to the contrary.

So they then began to develop a different tact

for the combatting of that particular report. They were not

going to try and deny or refute those things.

That is what I got from the conversations at

that point. I had nothing further to do with the Clearwater

report at that time.

Q Now, when you say "black magic" that Mr. Hubbard

was involved in, was that in the late 1940's?

A Yes, 1945, '46.

Q Was that with reference to a cult called

the OTO?

A Yes.

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MR. FLYNN: I think I only have one copy of this,

Your Honor.

Q Mr. Armstrong, in October, November 1981, did

you see that document?

A Yes.

THE COURT: What are we up to?

THE CLERK: Double-T.

THE COURT: Okay. Mark that as double-T, counsel.

MR. FLYNN: Thank you, Your Honor.

Q Now, in the first paragraph there is a

notation and that was by Vaughn Young; is that correct?

A Yes.

Q And he was in the Guardian's Office at the

time?

A He had two roles at the time. One was in the

Guardian's Office, and one was sort of a liaison working in

the personal office. He had not moved completely over into

the personal office at that time, although my understanding

was he was on his way at that time.

Q Now, the first paragraph states, "We have a

situation of en theta being presented around L. Ron Hubbard

that would be DA'd very specifically by producing an inter-

view with Omar that covers what he is discovering in his

research on the man."

What does en theta mean?

A En theta is a contraction of enturbulated.

Q What does that mean, Mr. Armstrong?

A Scientologists and Mr. Hubbard view en theta

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termed en theta, particularly in the press, and that would be

the en theta being spread about there.

Q What does the term "DA'd" mean?

A DA is a dead agent.

Q What does that mean?

A It refers to an agent who is spreading lies

about someone or about a group. The way you handle that

agent and the way you handle the lies is to document the

truth about that, showing that what he is saying is, in fact,

a lie. Then you show the truth, the documented truth, to the

people to whom the agent has been communicating, and there-

after he will no longer be believed and he is dead. He is

dead as an agent or dead.

Q Now, it says, "An interview with Omar that

covers what he is discovering in his research on the man."

To your knowledge, at that time was Omar Garrison discovering

material that conformed to the Clearwater report that you

read or was contradictory to the Clearwater report?

MR. LITT: Objection as to what Mr. Garrison was

discovering.

THE COURT: Well, I think it is probably overly broad.

I will sustain the objection.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: Well, at the time you were

providing materials to Omar Garrison; is that correct?

A Yes.

Q And this document is dated right about the time

that you saw the Clearwater report?

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A Yes.

Q And at that time, Mr. Armstrong, were you dis-

covering materials that were confirming the truth of the

contents of the Clearwater report about Mr. Hubbard or

contradicting what was in the Clearwater report?

MR. LITT: Same objection; vague.

THE COURT: I will sustain the objection.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: Now, it then goes on to say,

"This would be produced in both a video form and a written

form for broad usage on media lines and that additional

material would be given from the current state of things in

the legal arena."

Do you see that?

A Yes.

Q Now, at that time did you have any conver-

sations with Vaughn Young about getting additional materials

to Mr. Garrison about Mr. Hubbard?

A Yeah. We discussed this at great length since

one of the reasons that Vaughn became involved with this

project was because I did not have access to the Guardian's

Office Archives.

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What I had was LRH's archives. And these

archives did not contain what they call the historical

context materials. Some of that was provided by Vaughn

Young. And it was necessary because I didn't have access.

Q Now, so thereafter did Vaughn Young provide

you with materials from Guardian's Office Archives to dead

agent N-Theta being spread about Mr. Hubbard?

A I think that that -- at least to some level

that was done. It was done, really, to dead agent the

spreader. I guess that they considered -- they considered

that you were one of the sources who were spreading the

N-Theta. So there was a document provided to Mr. Garrison

which indicated that you were a very big enemy, connected you

in with psychiatric groups who were considered the real enemy.

And I would perceive that as an attempt to dead agent you.

Q Now, did you find any material at that time

and forward in your research that you gave to Mr. Garrison

that disproved any fact that was in the Clearwater report

about L. Ron Hubbard?

MR. LITT: Objection. The question is overly broad.

This report is apparently -- I have never read

it, but it is apparently rather long, two inches thick,

according to Mr. Armstrong. We are now having some con-

clusory statement made about a two-inch report, about its

accuracy.

THE COURT: Read the pending question, please.

(The question was read.)

THE COURT: That you were aware of as being in the

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THE WITNESS: There is only one which comes to mind

that I suppose is a rather miniscule fact. And it had to do

with Mr. Hubbard going down to Puerto Rico and how he went

down to Puerto Rico.

And in the materials that Michael Shannon had

provided, it showed that he hadn't gone down to do a

mineralogical survey; he had gone down as part of a Red Cross

Mission into Puerto Rico as a result of the hurricane which

occurred on the island sometime before and that somehow

Mr. Shannon had found out that Mr. Hubbard's passage had

been booked on board a particular line for that reason and

had some documents to that effect.

But I knew that this was not the case; that in

fact he had gone down -- Mr. Hubbard had gone to Puerto Rico

looking for gold, looking for other minerals and that the

reason for booking the passage appeared to be what was

fraudulent.

So that it was the -- Mr. Shannon had stumbled

onto something, but he hadn't correctly interpreted the facts.

And that was what I recalled.

I think it was the only fact at the time which

stuck out in my mind.

THE COURT: On this Exhibit double-T, it is entitled

"Project Biography Debug"; what would the terminology

"debug" mean in this context, if you know?

THE WITNESS: A bug is a problem. And to debug it is

to get rid of the bug in the works or in the ointment, I guess.

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And so he was in charge of debugging the

biography project. The project had a number of bugs, one of

which was I did not have access to these materials.

Another one was that Garrison was at that point

asking for his -- asking for a contract to be reevaluated

and some of the clauses rewritten, some of the conditions

changed. Those were bugs or problems.

And Mr. Young was assigned to handle those

things.

THE COURT: All right.

You may continue.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: when you say "these materials,"

in your last response, you meant Guardian Office materials?

A Right.

Q For the purpose of dead agenting, the N-Theta

being spread about L. Ron Hubbard?

A Well, this was that, but there was also

information which I was not able then to get ahold of. For

example, the Quentin materials.

The Quentin Hubbard death has considerable

interest among Scientologists and non-Scientrologists. I did

not have any information on it and I was not able to within

archives get any. But I knew that the B-1 had that material.

And Mr. Young was able to get it.

So it was not just dead agenting. It was also

to provide biographical information which I did not have.

Q Now, in the summer of 1982, did you prepare

several legal declarations for the Tonja Burden case?

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A Yes.

Q And were those declarations prepared prior to

the inception of the lawsuit?

A I believe at least one of them, maybe two.

Q Now, what was your understanding at that point

in time, Mr. Armstrong, with regard to the restrictions that

Omar Garrison had placed on your use of the documents?

A Only that they not be allowed out of the legal

arena.

His one concern was that he not be scooped,

that some other author -- that the materials find their way

to someone else who would quickly get the book out before he

was able to. That was his concern. And that is what I

honored in my dealings with everyone.

Q What was your state of mind and purpose for

filing declarations in the Tonja Burden case?

A Well, I had taken the position by this point

that I could not back down from the organization. I thought

that I was being terrorized. And I made the conscious

decision along with my wife to take a stand.

I felt, particularly regarding Tonja, that --

I had a great deal of responsibility in the Tonja matter.

Tonja was a young girl on board the ship. She had been for a

period of time my junior when we were working in the LRH

External Calm Unit at Dunedin.

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I have been her guardian along with my first

wife. We had been appointed sort of a quasi-legal guardian

of some sort, and I felt that she had gone through a very,

very rough experience and she deserved my support and my

help at that point, and I wanted to do whatever I could to

rectify the wrongs which I perceived that the organization

was involved in and which I had helped over my 11 or 12

years inside.

Q Now, at that point in time, were you being

followed during the sumer of 1982?

THE COURT: Well, did you believe you were being

followed?

THE WITNESS: Yes.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: And when you made this decision

to not back down from the organization, were you contacted by

various people in the media during the summer of 1982?

A The initial contact was, I guess, in the end

of May, beginning of June, and that was the producer from

"20/20," and I agreed at that point to be interviewed on

"20/20." And I also made the conscious choice, along with my

wife, to assume a high profile and to be willing to be inter-

viewed and to be willing to speak out and say what I per-

ceived was the truth of the matter simply because I felt that

there was a higher degree of protection in doing that, and

that the facts needed to come out, the other side of the

story needed to be told, and that I had an obligation after

all that had gone on, so that was the choice.

Thereafter, the press -- there was no further

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daily basis throughout several months after the case got

started.

Q When you say a "higher degree of protection,"

do you mean protection to yourself?

A Myself and my wife.

Q And what did you feel with regard to having a

high profile, as you put it, in connection with protecting

yourself?

A Well, the information about the organization

was -- a lot of it was contained in my mind, a lot of it was

contained in the documents, and I felt that the -- I would

alleviate to a degree the threat that I might do something

by doing it, and also that by being known, by being willing

to speak out and by being recognized, if anything did happen

or rather the organization would be more reluctant to do

anything of a very serious nature because I was known to the

press and because I was a known individual at that point.

Q Now, at that point in time, how many people had

you known that had actually been physically locked up by the

organization?

A I knew of probably several dozen. I don't know

that I could name all of those people, but I knew that it was

a regular pattern of conduct, so there is a great number

throughout all that time.

Q And in November 1981, did you know that Bill

Franks, the supposedly highest ranking official in the world

of the Church of Scientology, had been physically locked up

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MR. LITT: Objection; leading. Assumes facts not in

evidence.

THE COURT: Well, I will sustain the latter objection.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: What if anything did you know

about Bill Franks in November, December 1981 being physically

restrained at Gilman Hot Springs?

A I was out at Gilman Hot Springs during that

period and I was told that by two people, actually one was

Harvey Haber, and one was a guard on the property.

Q And did you know what Bill Franks' position

was at that time?

A Well, the last position I knew he was holding

before the lockup was the executive director international.

Q What was your understanding as to at least on

paper the rank that that position held in the Church of

Scientology?

A That he was the top official.

Q And did you know at that time the circumstances --

was that shortly before you left the organization,

Mr. Armstrong?

A Yes.

Q Now, in your years of research had you come

across various deaths that had occurred that you felt were

unexplained inside the Church of Scientology?

MR. LITT: Your Honor, this is unbelievable.

THE COURT: Is that an objection?

MR. LITT: Yes, it is an objection.

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At this point are we going to allow as relevant

evidence in this case any evidence or things that

Mr. Armstrong ever heard about any unexplained death in 13

years that he knows nothing about, that he has no personal

knowledge of as part of scene vague state of mind?

MR. FLYNN: I will restrict it a little more.

THE COURT: All right.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: Mr. Armstrong, at this point in

time, in November 1981, up until the summer of 1982, what was

your state of mind with regard to your fear that the

organization would kill you?

A Well, I viewed it as a real probability. It

was there practically at all times. I never went outside a

door without thinking that it could happen right now. I

altered my times when I went places so that my schedule was

always varying. I was acting like a person who believed that

he was going to be blown away. It went on for months,

probably for a couple of years.

Q Prior to this trial beginning, did you have

that fear?

A I get it occasionally even during the trial.

Q Now, had you been exposed to any Guardian's

Office documentation of operations against people prior to

leaving the organization?

A Yes.

Q And how much?

A Not -- really not very much in the big scope

of things.

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Q After you left the organization, were you

exposed to Guardian's Office materials about operations

against people?

A Some.

Q And where did that material come from?

A At least the majority of it came from you.

Q And did you have an understanding as to where

I received it from?

A Yes.

MR. HARRIS: Purely hearsay, Your Honor. What is the

relevance?

THE COURT: All he did was ask him if he had an

understanding, and he said yes.

The next question may be something you want to

object to. Let's wait and see what it is.

MR. HARRIS: My objection would be relevant. After

he sees Mr. Flynn, and Mr. Flynn gives him a lot of

materials, what possible relevance could that have to this

lawsuit?

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THE COURT: Well, it certainly might go to the

witness' state of mind as to whether or not it is force-fed

or whatever it is. That is something else. It goes to the

weight to be given to it.

MR. FLYNN: Did you see documents that had been seized

by the FBI in July of 1977?

A Yes.

Q And did you know when you left the organization

that the FBI had conducted a raid against the Church of

Scientology?

A Yes.

Q What was your understanding as to how much

documentation had been seized by the FBI, Mr. Armstrong?

MR. HARRIS: Objection as irrelevant.

THE COURT: Well, I'll overrule the objection.

THE WITNESS: I don't have pages, but I knew that it

was a tremendous mass of documents.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: Having seen those materials after

you left the organization, did that affect your

state of mind?

MR. LITT: Objection.

MR. HARRIS: Irrelevant.

He has now got the documents in Mr. Flynn's

hands, Your Honor. His state of mind after that is

irrelevant.

THE COURT: I suppose so. I'll sustain the objection.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: In the summer of 1982 when you

felt like you were being followed, did you know you were

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A I was told that by them and by the police.

Q When were you told that?

A In August of 1982.

Q Now, at that point you had been followed for

several months; is that correct?

A Yes.

Q Who did you think was following you before that?

A I didn't know; although I knew that I was

accosted outside the Post Office in, I believe, the

beginning of June and someone had come up who obviously knew

me and he had thrust a letter inside my shirt. So I knew at

that point that I had been under surveillance; that they

must have known where my PO box was, what car I drove, what

I looked like.

So I assumed that this was a process server, not

a Scientologist. And I assumed throughout that period that

I was under surveillance by both Scientologists and hired

private investigators.

Q Now, in 1982 did a woman named Nancy Dincalci

assist you in fleeing from the surveillance of the private

investigators?

A Yes.

Q Would you describe what happened at that time.

A Well, my wife and I were living in the trailer

park. And we were --

MR. LITT: Can we have a time frame on this?

Q BY MR. FLYNN: When was this, Mr. Armstrong?

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A September 1982.

Q What happened?

A We had been followed at that point night and

day, 24 hours a day. They were watching us or following us

wherever we went. And it had gone on for a couple of weeks

and we had not been able to leave. And we were under a lot

of pressure and we were going a little mad at the time.

So I made arrangements with Nancy for her to

come and pick us up on the property, thinking there was no

way we could drive off the property because they had two

cars on us the whole time. So we would have been followed.

And we wanted to get away for a little while.

So Nancy drove in and she put on a wig and a

bunch of lipstick and looked funny and was able to actually

drive onto the property.

We hid in a laundry room in another part of the

whole complex and then we got down on the floor of her car

and she was able to get away.

So we spent that evening and the next day with

her away from the whole private investigator scene.

Q Now, just prior to your leaving the organization

you were asked to sign a contract with Church of Scientology

International, which has been marked as exhibit double-M; do

you recall that?

A Yes.

Q And just again, how much prior to your leaving

was it, Mr. Armstrong?

A I received this about maybe a week or 10 days

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I was told that this new organization was going

to start on December 10th and that it had to be signed by

then.

Q Prior to that and for the previous several

months had you been working in the MCCS mission?

A I had been working in MCCS in the year

previously for a couple of months and then just sometime in

1981. I did relatively little work, just mostly the

couriering to or from attorneys.

Q Now, when you were working on the MCCS mission

did you understand that the purpose of the MCCS mission was

to conceal L. Ron Hubbard's control over Scientology moneys?.

MR. HARRIS: I'll object to that as calling for a

conclusion of the witness or else based upon attorney-client

privileged information learned while couriering items to the

attorney, Your Honor.

MR. FLYNN: I'll withdraw it.

THE COURT: All right.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: Mr. Armstrong, just

restricting --

Who was in charge of the MCCS mission?

A David Miscavige.

Q And who was your senior?

A Laurel Sullivan.

Q And did you have communications with Laurel

Sullivan about Hubbard's relationship to church funds

without an attorney being present?

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A Yes.

Q And what were those conversations?

MR. HARRIS: Objection, Your Honor, as attorney-client

privileged.

He is part of the mission; she is part of the

mission; David Miscavige is part of the mission according to

this witness' testimony. Any disclosure made about those

items is attorney-client privilege. It is the

organization's means of communicating back and forth between

the people who are in the organization and the attorneys.

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THE COURT: Well, one of the problems, of course, is

that there is -- the attorney-client privilege, of course,

is a very important, significant privilege; and, of course,

when you are dealing with an entity which is rather amorphous,

it has various forms at different times, and personalities

come and go and offices change. But communications are

prepared obviously for submission to counsel and vice versa.

So I am not really clear.

Another problem, of course, is that there is an

exception to the attorney-client privilege if it deals with

anything which might relate to fraud or a crime.

MR. HARRIS: That is correct, Your Honor, but there

must be first extrinsic evidence of same.

MR. FLYNN: I will see if I can do that, Your Honor.

Q Mr. Armstrong, when Exhibit double-M was

placed in front of you and you read the portion, "That

neither Ron nor Mary Sue Hubbard are officers or directors of

the Church and that neither of them are in any manner

responsible for actions of the Church . . ." and that

neither had received "any compensation or remuneration from

training or processing by the Church . . ."

Now, at that time in December 1981, when you

read that, did you have specific knowledge that that was

false?

A Yes.

Q And did you know that everyone in the

organization was being asked to sign that document?

A Yes.

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Q And did you know at that time that funds were

being specifically funded to L. Ron Hubbard through a

corporation called Religious Research Corporation?

A Yes.

MR. HARRIS: This corporation, Your Honor, is Church

of Scientology International by its heading. Unless the

witness knows that Church of Scientology International was

funneling money and knows it from personal knowledge, it is

not okay to say it was false.

THE COURT: Just relax. Let me see it a minute.

Well, I will overrule the objection. He can

certainly testify as to his state of mind with reference to

what he knew. If this was something that he was being asked

to sign that appeared to him to be untrue, he can so state.

MR. LITT: Your Honor, if I may add, what is happening

or what is about to happen in this line of questioning is that

the purported knowledge that Mr. Armstrong has is knowledge

obtained that is privileged.

Now, then, he is -- and the process is going

like this. Document is presented.

Did you know this to be false? Yes, which it

is not because this is after his knowledge, so he doesn't

know it to be false as to what the present situation is.

He purportedly knows it to be false at some

point in the past.

Then, well, how did you know? Privileged

information, and then the allegation of crime or fraud.

Now, if we are going to get into this, then I

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where the ground rules are set as to what can be talked about

before the privilege is abrogated or not. We can establish,

and the Court has to make a preliminary fact determination

that all of the communications that Mr. Armstrong learned

about and all of the information that he learned about was

privileged. That it was not in furtherance of a crime or a

fraud and that no privileged information may be used in

testimony. And when the question is asked did you know X

fact, it should be on that day whether he knew, not something

that he learned in preparing and communicating with

attorneys about how to sort out inner relations among a

variety of Scientology Corporations and the founder of

Scientology, which is what is about to happen.

It is a back door way to try to use the

privileged information to supposedly show that it is not

privileged and it is privileged and we can establish that it

is privileged, and we can bring in all the attorneys

involved, if that is what the Court wants. But this is not

right, and that is the position that we are in here. That is

what is happening.

THE COURT: I don't know. You said that you knew

something that he had received funds through some religious --

how did you obtain that information?

THE WITNESS: During the MCCS briefings.

THE COURT: Who was conducting the briefings?

THE WITNESS: Well, the people who were present were

Laurel, Laurel Sullivan, myself, Mike Smith, who was the LRH

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we were at that time discussing payment which had been made

to Mr. Hubbard of two point some odd million dollars from

RRF; and then the subject of how RRF got its funds and what,

in fact, those funds were came up, and it was during those

conversations.

I had known about the existence of RRF for some

years, but how exactly it worked I did not know until I was

in communication with Laurel dealing with this exact thing.

MR. LITT: But, Your Honor, may I pose some questions?

THE COURT: We will take a 15-minute recess and come

back to it.

(Recess.)

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MR. HARRIS: I have a suggestion for Your Honor which

you might find beneficial or might not.

The court has the inherent power to control the

order of proof.

My suggestion that -- I assume Mr. Armstrong is

going to be on at least the remainder of today -- that we

have an in camera determination tomorrow morning about this

subject matter.

We would be prepared to disclose to Your Honor

information in order to determine the privilege under the

circumstances. And I think that is probably the only way we

can do it, including letters from lawyers and the like.

THE COURT: That would be agreeable with me.

Is there any problem with the defense to work

around this subject?

MR. FLYNN: No, Your Honor, as long as it is

understood -- the scope of this evidence gets greatly

expanded with the testimony of Laurel Sullivan. As long as

it is understood that we can -- that I can recall

Mr. Armstrong after Laurel Sullivan testifies.

THE COURT: Yes.

MR. FLYNN: But I would like to put in the record at

this point a couple of questions that won't get into the

context of any MCCS material.

THE COURT: All right.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: Are you familiar with the

document, Mr. Armstrong, entitled "What Your Fees Buy"?

A Yes.

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Q And what is that?

A It is a brief document by Mr. Hubbard in which

he says that he is not paid. It is the standard thing which

is shown to public people when they are buying Scientology

services.

Q And is that broadly disseminated within

Scientology?

A Yes.

Q And does it relate to the fact that Mr. Hubbard

claims that he has not received any funds from the church

and he has forgiven millions of dollars in debt?

A Yes.

Q Prior to 1980 did you believe that?

A Yes.

Q And was it represented to the public prior to

1980 that Mr. Hubbard didn't control any Church of

Scientology corporations?

MR. LITT: Objection.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: If you know.

MR. LITT: By whom, when, what?

THE COURT: Well, that doesn't contribute anything

when you say, "by whom, when, and what." He is not required

to do that. If there is an objection --

MR. LITT: The objection is that the question as

framed is overly vague and ambiguous.

THE COURT: If you are aware whether or not the church

ever held out to the public such a matter, you may so state.

If you don't, you can so state.

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THE WITNESS: That picture was held out to the public,

but it was not the picture which was given to those of us on

the inside at a certain level.

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Q Now, when you say to the public, what is a

public Scientologist?

A A public Scientologist is a person who is not

on any staff anywhere and who is simply paying for the series

which he takes.

Q And just briefly with regard to paying for

series, would you describe how the payment procedure worked

based on your 11 years of observations inside the

organization?

A One talked to a registrar, was sold a particular

service or product and paid for it.

Q And were there price lists for these products?

A Yes.

Q And could Master Charge and Visa be used?

A I never came across that.

Q What was the price range of many of these

services?

MR. LITT: Objection; vague as to time.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: In the 1978-79 area, what was

the price range for the services?

A I don't recall any service particularly, but we

are talking about several thousand dollars in a case; $10,000

for a Flag executive briefing course, a few thousand dollars

for an OT level. It is a considerable amount of money, but I

don't recall exact figures on any particular service.

Q Had you seen price lists?

A Yes.

Q Let me show you that price list. Have you seen

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A Yes.

THE COURT: Have you seen this, counsel?

MR. LITT: No.

MR. HARRIS: No.

MR. FLYNN: This is the only one I have with me, Your

Honor.

Q While that is being reviewed, did you know of

any Scientology services that were given out without the

necessity of a fee being paid?

A Yes. There were certain cases when people,

and here particularly comes to mind celebrities, would be

awarded. There were occasions when people not on staff, but

who would be called public were awarded for some contri-

bution of some sort, but they would not have to pay. They

would be awarded their next level or a particular service.

These were quite rare. Those of us who were

on staff were, as long as we were on staff, we did not have

to pay directly for those services which we took.

Q Do you recall whether some of the courses went

up to as much as $42,000?

A I don't recall that particular figure at all.

I know that there were some very big figures,

but I don't recall that figure.

MR. FLYNN: May this be marked as next in order?

THE COURT: Okay. Double-U.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: Now, you knew in general, did

you not, that millions of dollars were being paid by public

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were involved?

A Yes.

Q And you saw this document "What Your Fees Buy"

during the period that you were involved?

A Yes.

Q And when was the first time that you saw that

document, if you recall?

A I recall at least that phrase very early. It

may even have been when I was in Vancouver. It may have been

sometime on the ship, but I definitely recall the phrase.

It was a well-known Scientdlogy phrase.

Q Prior to 1980, did you rely on the fact that

L. Ron Hubbard was not receiving any Church funds and had

forgiven millions of dollars to continue your work for

Mr. Hubbard?

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A I put a great deal of reliance in that fact. I

believe it contributed to my undergoing all the time I did

in the RPF and in making the type of wages that I did make

throughout that period.

I had no idea at that point about what kind of

money he was making.

Q And did you subsequently learn that in 1980,

1981 when you were working on the biography project?

A Yes.

Q And Laurel Sullivan was in charge of both the

biography project and in charge of MCCS; is that correct?

A Yes.

Q What was Hubbard called inside the organization

at the level that you were working on with him?

A It depended; either LRH, R, The Boss.

From 197- -- from the point when we went off the

ship onward in Dunedin, he was always referred to as "The

Boss." And that carried on into La Quinta and Gilman Hot

Springs.

Q Now, is there any aspect of the workings of

Scientology organizations that you observed over a period of

11 years that you did not see Mr. Hubbard supervise or

manage?

A That is an interesting question. There were --

things which got done, obviously, without his knowledge

because he was not everywhere. But he controlled every

aspect. And he managed every aspect. And everything that I

saw was done pursuant to his orders.

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Q And were those orders issued and obeyed in a

command line that was similar to a military command line?

A Yes.

Q Did you ever hear the word "ecclesiastical" when

you were inside the organization?

A Nothing to do with Scientology or as used here,

a differentiation between ecclesiastical and temporal

matters. Such a thing never existed when I was involved.

Q Now, with regard to the Nobel Prize project, did

you see any orders from L. Ron Hubbard with regard to the

use of Scientology funds to obtain Mr. Hubbard the Nobel

Prize?

A Yes.

Q What did you see?

A It was -- there was a series of communications,

orders from him regarding obtaining a Nobel Prize. And one

of them and the one which laid out what he wanted, he stated

that unlimited funds were allocated for this project, the

project of getting him a Nobel Prize.

Q Unlimited Scientology funds?

A Yes.

Q And you saw that order?

A Yes.

 

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Q And since 1982 have you had conversations, just

yes or no, with officials of the Canadian government?

A Yes.

Q And an a result of these conversations, was a

declaration of yours used to secure a search warrant by the

Canadian government?

MR. LITT: Objection; calls for a conclusion.

MR. HARRIS: Also irrelevant; '83.

THE COURT: What is the relevance, counsel?

MR. FLYNN: It goes to the MCCS Mission, Your Honor.

MR. HARRIS: I thought we had an agreement that this

was going to be handled tomorrow morning, Your Honor.

MR. FLYNN: I am going to leave it with just this.

THE COURT: Well, all right. 0verruled.

The question really is did you submit a

declaration that was utilized by Canadian authorities for

some legal purpose.

THE WITNESS: Yes, I did, and it was a different

sequence from what you had mentioned there.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: What was the sequence?

A The sequence was they used the declaration,

and the declaration was used, from what I was told by the

Canadian officials, my affidavit or declaration was used as

part of the evidence in obtaining a search warrant. And I

spoke to them after that fact and after the search had been

carried out.

Q And did that declaration relate to Religious

Research Foundation and MCCS in the funneling of Church funds?

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MR. HARRIS: Objection; irrelevant, Your Honor. The

timing, and also I thought again we had this agreement.

MR. FLYNN: That is going to be the last question,

Your Honor, just so Your Honor will know that the witness

has filed declarations with respect to MCCS.

THE COURT: Well, of course, the fact that he might

have disclosed something that we might conclude is privileged

here in some other proceeding wouldn't make it non-privileged

here.

MR. FLYNN: No, it wouldn't, Your Honor. But the fact

that there is an ongoing criminal investigation with regard

to future fraudulent activity of the Church might be some-

thing --

THE COURT: I can't -- this certainly wouldn't be

evidence. It would be hearsay; and all we know is that he

gave a declaration. Everything else would be hearsay, and

what their purpose was, getting into all kinds of collateral

issues. I will sustain the objection.

MR. FLYNN: Fine, Your Honor.

Q Now, Mr. Armstrong, during the period of time

that you were involved in the Church of Scientology and were

working with Mr. Hubbard, did you hear him make thousands of

statements?

A Yes.

Q And in connection with your duties as the

biographer for L. Ron Hubbard in possessing his materials,

did you attempt to select for Mr. Garrison and review with

Mr. Garrison representations made by Mr. Hubbard in writing

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being publicly disseminated and relied upon by Scientologists

and the public?

MR. HARRIS: It is really a compound question, Your

Honor, and I object.

THE COURT: Well, it probably is. I will sustain the

objection.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: Did you attempt to address

representations made by Mr. Hubbard in writing that you felt

were the most significant?

A Yes. I discussed that sort of thing in those

representations with Mr. Garrison many times.

Q And what was the basis for your selecting

representations that you were dealing with Mr. Garrison on in

the biography project, Mr. Armstrong?

MR. HARRIS: I certainly didn't understand the

question. I hope Your Honor did. it is vague and ambiguous.

THE COURT: Well, maybe in the way you phrased it, it

is vague and ambiguous to you; is that what you are saying?

MR. HARRIS: That is what I am saying.

THE COURT: You are asking me whether it is also

vague and ambiguous to me?

MR. HARRIS: I think so. I am soliciting a ruling,

if I can have one.

MR. FLYNN: I may be too close to it. I will withdraw

it.

Q Were there particular factors, Mr. Armstrong,

that you relied upon in selecting areas of Mr. Hubbard's life

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that you felt were pertinent for the biography?

A Well, in selecting areas, the guidelines on

which I had to work were what had been published up to date

about his life, so the guidelines initially, at least, that

I worked is was looking for supporting documentation for

those facts.

There were some facts which were more

important in my mind; the way that I perceived L. Ron Hubbard,

the way I thought of him and what I thought to be the truth

at that time about his business and what was most significant

in my mind, but generally, at least until I had assembled a

fairly comprehensive chronology of the man's life, I followed

the stories that had been published by him up to that time.

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Q Now, when you were collecting documents, did you

collect various biographical sketches that had been issued

over the years about Mr. Hubbard?

A Yes.

Q And the documents that are currently under seal,

did you select out some of the biographical sketches that

were available to you in 1982 that you sent to me?

A Yes.

Q Now, at that time what -- let me ask you this:

What percentage of the documents presently under seal

comprises the total amount of documents that you collected

for the biography project.

MR. LITT: Objection. Unintelliglble, Your Honor.

THE COURT: It is 2 percent; isn't it?

MR. FLYNN: I am not sure it is on the record.

THE COURT: I think it has been about three times.

MR. FLYNN: Thank you, Your Honor.

Q Is it about 2 percent?

A That is a pretty good figure.

Q Are there many biographical sketches of

Mr. Hubbard that you saw that are not under seal?

A Yes.

Q Now, with regard to exhibit A on the defendant's

list of documents under seal --

THE COURT: I already marked that double-V. We'll

mark it double-V for identification.

MR. LITT: Is that this document?

MR. HARRIS: There is a document that has not been

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Publicly by L. Ron Hubbard."

THE COURT: We have just marked it double-V for

identification.

MR. HARRIS: I think Mr. Flynn is referring to some

other document at this point.

THE COURT: I think he was referring to the sub-

heading A, "Naval Period." He referred to A. I don't know

why. But be that as it may --

MR. FLYNN: The list of Misrepresentations Made

Publicly by L. Ron Hubbard is now double-V.

THE COURT: Double-V as in "Victor/Victoria."

Q BY MR. FLYNN: Are there documents under seal,

Mr. Armstrong, which contain biographical sketches of L. Ron

Hubbard relating to his Naval background?

A Yes.

Q As set forth in double-V?

A Yes.

MR. FLYNN: For the record, the defendant's list of

exhibits from documents under seal is exhibit 15, Your

Honor.

The first item on exhibit 15 is a brief

biography of L. Ron Hubbard, four pages which has also been

marked as part of exhibit 8 of the defendant; may we have

that first exhibit, Your Honor?

And while we are doing it, I would say all the

way in the defendant's list of exhibit A through --

THE COURT: We have our court exhibits now which have

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seal exhibits, perhaps you should say specifically "under

seal exhibits" such-and-such, if that is what you are asking

for.

MR. FLYNN: That is correct, Your Honor.

May we have exhibits A through U that are under

seal?

I think, Your Honor, because of the fact that we

only have one set that there is going to be somewhat of a

laborious process.

THE COURT: I suspect so.

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THE COURT: Well, the clerk has these now. What do

you propose to do with them?

MR. FLYNN: I'd like to put them in front of the

witness.

Apparently A has already been marked, Your

Honor, as Exhibit H.

THE COURT: Here is Exhibit H.

MR. FLYNN: Thank you, Your Honor.

Q Now, Mr. Armstrong, when you were preparing a

collection of documents for the biography of L. Ron Hubbard,

did you find Exhibit A, which is Exhibit A under seal, which

has been marked Defendant's Exhibit H?

A Yes.

Q And at that time did you intend to document

the representations that had been made about L. Ron Hubbard

in Exhibit A under seal, Defendant's Exhibit H?

A Yes.

Q Starting with the first line under "Hubbard,

Lafayette Ronald, BS in Civil Engineering, George Washington

University"; did you attempt to document that?

A Yes.

Q And what did you find?

A I found within his naval records a number of

statements which proved that there was no Bachelor of Science

degree in civil engineering.

Q And were his transcripts among the naval

records?

A Yes.

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MR. FLYNN: One of the problems with the naval

records is they are extremely voluminous and they go all over

the place as to what I am going to try to do first is go

through this and go back and select out portions that I'd

like to have marked.

THE COURT: I think before we do that, we probably

ought to determine what we are doing with this evidence in

the sense that, as I understand, the defense is that there

is basically, there is a privilege which relates to the

documents that were submitted to you or to Contos & Bunch

that had to do with his lawsuit or his fear of being sued.

Now, it seems to me if that is the thrust of

this evidence, the thrust is then why did he take certain

documents? How did it relate to his belief that this would

be necessary to defend himself in this lawsuit with the

Scientology people as distinguished from whether something is

true or not true in the abstract, if you follow what I am

saying.

MR. FLYNN: I do, Your Honor.

Q Mr. Armstrong, when the Suppressive Person

Declare was issued on you, you were accused of defaming

Mr. Hubbard; is that correct?

A Yes.

Q And when you were ordered to be sec checked by

Mr. Starsky, the issue was that you had made misrepresentations

about Mr. Hubbard; is that correct?

A Yes.

Q And when you sent me the documents that you did,

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A To be able to defend myself in the attack that

I knew that was going to begin to prove the falsity of the

Declare which had been brought on about me; to seek legal

advice as to what exactly I could do, how exactly to go

about my legal defense.

Q And for that reason, you sent documents that

you believed would prove that what you had been saying about

L. Ron Hubbard was true?

A Yes.

Q So, therefore, did you send me documents

relating to Mr. Hubbard's educational background?

A Yes.

THE COURT: I don't know. Maybe in the two days the

witness has been on the stand he's testified to so many

things, but what is it that you were saying that you were

being told was untrue? Who were you saying it to? What

were you saying?

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THE COURT: Maybe I missed some of this. You have a

lot of exhibits.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: For example, you sent a letter to

Cirrus Slevin which has been marked double-I in which you were

telling the organization that Mr. Hubbard had not graduated

from Columbia College; is that correct?

A Yes.

Q And did you find documents under seal which proved

that he didn't graduate from Columbia College?

A The documents which I found are now under seal,

at least some of them, yes.

Q And did you find documents under seal which related

to the Caribbean motion picture expedition of 1933?

A Yes.

Q And to the West Indies minerals of 1934?

A Yes.

Q And the Columbia Pictures, 1935?

A You are asking me are these under seal?

Q Are these under seal?

A I don't believe there is anything on that.

Q On Columbia Pictures?

A Not specifically, no.

Q But are there documents that are in the possession

of the organization --

A Yes.

Q -- that relate to that?

A Yes.

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Q And with regard to his many screen credits, are

there documents under seal that relate to that?

A Yes.

Q For example, "Dive Bomber"?

A Yes.

Q And with regard to his being the Provost Marshal

of Korea in 1945, are there documents under seal relating to

that?

A Yes.

Q And whether he was a Hollywood director, are there

documents under seal that relate to that?

A I believe so, yes.

Q And with regard to L. Ron Hubbard, Jr., are there

documents under seal that relate to Guardian's Office activities

against L. Ron Hubbard's son?

A Yes.

Q And with regard to Omar Garrison discovering that

previous biographical sketches of L. Ron Hubbard are false,

are there documents under seal that prove that?

A Yes.

Q And with regard to Commander Thompson, Mr. Hubbard's

relationship to Commander Thompson, are there documents under

seal that relate to that?

A I don't know if there is anything specifically

on that, but at least by inference.

Q Are there documents in the possession of the

organization that specifically relate to Commander Thompson?

A Yes.

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Q That are not under seal?

A Yes.

Q And with regard to Hubbard's activities between

1925 and 1929, are there documents under seal that relate to

that?

A Yes.

Q And are there many inconsistent statements by

Mr. Hubbard in documents under seal relating to what his

activities were between 1925 and 1929 when he claimed he was

studying in Asia?

A Yes.

Q And with regard to the fact that L. Ron Hubbard

owned a cattle ranch in Montana, are there documents under

seal relating to that?

A The story was L. Ron Hubbard's grandfather owning

the cattle ranch. I don't know if there is anything

specifically on that under seal.

Q But in the course of your research did you find

documents that are in the possession of the organization

relating to that subject?

A Yes.

Q And did his grandfather ever own a cattle ranch?

MR. LITT: Objection. It calls for a conclusion.

THE COURT: Sustained.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: Are those among the things that

you were telling the organization that those facts about

L. Ron Hubbard were untrue?

A Yes.

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Q And did you have conversations with Vaughn Young

during that period of tine about many facts relating to

L. Ron Hubbard's background?

A Yes.

Q And are many of those facts relating to his

background set forth in exhibit double-V?

MR. HARRIS: Objection. Vague and ambiguous at this

point.

There is no referent, just general conversations,

many of those.

THE COURT: I'll sustain the objection, the form of the

question.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: With regard to exhibit double-V,

Mr. Armstrong, taking the naval period, ". . . fought in five

theaters," did you find documents under seal that disproved

that Mr. Hubbard had fought in five theaters that you were

bringing to the attention of the organization?

A Yes.

MR. HARRIS: I'll object to that, Your Honor, as calling

for a conclusion. It is not in any exhibit which was read

by Mr. Flynn. I am still not sure exactly what we are getting

at at this point either.

The self-serving documents sent to Cirrus Slevin

set forth, at least, some areas where Mr. Armstrong purportedly

found or didn't find information in respect to certain claims

that were made. But at this point I think he has been through

just about every conceivable item that, in his mind, at least,

either wasn't proved or was different than what the

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I think that is pretty well established by this

witness's testimony. But where do we go from here?

MR. FLYNN: Your Honor, I submit that what the defense

feels should be done is that the exhibits that disprove the

representations about L. Ron Hubbard that became the entire

focus of Mr. Armstrong's difficulties with the organization

and, really, the reason for this lawsuit, we believe the basic

reason this case is in court is because this witness found

out that the representations made about this man over a period

of 30 years were false.

THE COURT: It seems to me that all that is fine. But

what we are dealing with is what his explanation is for taking

certain documents and submitting them to you.

It seems to me more logical to have him look at

a document, an exhibit, a list; this is something I took; this

is why I took it; this is how it relates to why I wanted you

to have it rather than, you know, I don't -- we are not here

to in the abstract prove the truth or falsity of certain things.

We are here to determine if he took them, why he took them;

whether there is a legal breach as distinguished from other

aspects of whether he had consent to have them in the first

place or whether there is a breach of any duty or other reasons.

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Q BY MR. FLYNN: Starting with Exhibit A,

Mr. Armstrong, did you send me Exhibit A under seal?

A Yes.

Q And why did you send me that?

A Because that document contained a number of

the representations in which I had relied and which I had

discovered to be untrue-daring the course of my research; and

to me it was an essential part of the evidence of the fraud

which had been committed.

Q And what representations? Would you run through

Exhibit A and state which representations you had relied upon

which you found to be fraudulent?

A His study in the Far East, in China and India

under Llama priests; his educational background, that he was

an engineer; his excelling at his classes; the claim that he

was, by all these facts, a war hero.

Q And what facts were you specifically referring

to?

A Well, that he was the first casualty from the

Far East; that he was the individual on whom the book and

story "Mr. Roberts" had been written; that he commanded a

squadron of, I believe it was Corvettes, but here they are

antisubmarine war vessels; and that he in this particular

document, the often repeated claim that he had combined his

scientific abilities and studies with the philosophy of the

East that he had studied in such depth.

Those are mainly the facts that I can glean

quickly from this thing.

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Q Did you at one point undertake to establish

almost a line-by-line verification of statements that are

made, for example, is Exhibit A when you were doing the

project?

A Yes. I did not do it for this particular

document, but I did it for other biographical sketches or

dust jacket material that had bean published at that point

or was being published. I did it in relationship to the newer

materials which had been published on Mr. Hubbard.

Q Now, with respect to Exhibit H entitled

"Facts About L. Ron Hubbard, Things You Should Know," Flag

divisional directive.

THE COURT: I am sorry, counsel. H?

MR. FLYNN: H under seal.

THE COURT: What we had was A under seal, which is H

in our trial. Now you have another document here. It is

getting rather difficult.

What is it under seal known as H?

MR. FLYNN: H under seal, which has not been marked.

THE COURT: All right. Do you want it marked for

identification?

MR. FLYNN: Perhaps the easiest way to do it would be

to mark it as H under seal rather than to remark all of these.

THE COURT: Do you have any problem with that?

THE CLERK: I don't have the space to write on the tag.

If you can put something in front of it or after it.

THE COURT: We could possibly mark the -- it is kind of

late now -- the documents that are up here in court under

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be 500-H.

MR. FLYNN: That is agreeable.

MR. LITT: That is fine, or you could do it with a

letter.

THE COURT: Why don't we mark this collectively, the

documents up here in court will be Exhibit 500 for identifi-

cation only, and then this one can be marked 500-H.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: Why did you send me 500-H,

Mr. Armstrong?

A Because it was a public relations product from

the LRH office of public relations and laid out a number of

the statements which were being made about Mr. Hubbard by

PR's at that time.

Q And what type of statements specifically?

A Well, they were -- do you want me to run down

the things from this?

Q Just quickly, just some of the representations

from 500-H.

A Again, here is the -- between 1925 and 1929,

he journeyed throughout Asia. He was in Peking and Manchuria,

studied under Llamas.

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Again, graduated from Columbia College, George

Washington.

Q That is dated 1974?

A Yes.

Here he is replaced, relieved -- at the

beginning -- in the South Pacific he was relieved by 15 officers

of rank and rushed home to take part in the 1942 battle against

German submarines as commanding officer of the Corvet, Commodore

of a Corvet squadron in 1944; received 12 medals in Palms;

1944, severely wounded and crippled and blinded. Received

an extensive education in the field of human mind from

Commander Thompson of the Medical Corps; personal student of

Sigmund Freud.

Those were the main points from this that were

often repeated and which I initially relied upon in getting

involved.

Q And with respect to 500-I, what is 500-I?

A 500-I is a transcript of Mr. Hubbard's autobio-

graphical notes from Peter Tomkins.

Q Who is Peter Tomkins?

A Peter Tomkins was an author who, in the earlier

seventies was going to do a biography of Mr. Hubbard. And

in response to some questions from Mr. Tomkins, Mr. Hubbard

dictated the information which makes up his autobiographical

notes.

Q How do you know Mr. Hubbard dictated it?

A Well, I saw the transcription when I was inside

and saw the notes from Lynn Moore, later Lynn Visk, who was

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time. She was in SO-1 Unit at that time.

Q Were there various representations made by

Mr. Hubbard in exhibit 500-I that you found to be inaccurate?

A Yes.

Q And is that why you sent it to me?

A Yes. It had some -- a great deal of significance

to me because it was proof, at least, that the source of the

misrepresentations was Mr. Hubbard himself and not just the

organization acting independently of him which was something

which was a problem that I ran into with Norman Starsky in

which he stated that, yes, but Mr. Hubbard isn't saying these

things.

And I showed him that in fact the source of all

of these representations about Mr. Hubbard was Mr. Hubbard

himself.

And so that is why I sent -- that is why this had

some significance.

Q Without running through the representations, were

there many in there that you found of a similar type that had

been made in the other exhibits?

A Yes.

Q And with regard to 500-J, why did you send me that?

A Well, this was after similar things -- although

we don't have the fact that this was done by Mr. Hubbard, the

organization has that information. And just that in this

public statement, even for nonscientologists, there are

misrepresentations about what exactly he had done, especially

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Q What is 500-J from?

A "Two Thousand Men of Achievement, 1971."

Q Did you see that publication?

A Yes.

Q And is that now in the possession of the

organization?

A Yes.

Q And were among the representations that Mr. Hubbard

was a postgraduate of Princeton University?

A Yes.

Q And among the representations that he was in the

office of the Provost Marshal of Korea?

A Yes.

Q Together with various expeditions and academic

claims?

A Yes.

Q And 500-K, what is that, Mr. Armstrong?

A This was just some biographical facts which were

put together. It is like a data sheet which was in the PR

bureau when I was there. And it was part of the materials

assembled for Mr. Garrison and part of the outline which I

followed at the beginning of the b iographyproject.

Q And were there line-by-line representations made

about Mr. Hubbard in this data sheet?

A Yes.

Q And in connection with your duties for Mr. Hubbard,

did you try to document these?

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A Yes.

Q And did you find that they were almost universally

false?

MR. LITT: Objection.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: What did you find?

A I found that a great number of them were false.

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Q Now, is that why you sent them to me?

A Yes.

Q And with regard to 500-L, what I, 500-L?

A 500-L, I believe, is a policy letter. I

think this may even be published. That is broadly in what

they call the green volumes, but I am not sure right now.

In any case, it was a standard policy letter in

the organization.

Q And did it contain representations about

L. Ron Hubbard?

A Yes.

Q And did you find some of the representations in

500-L to be false?

A Yes.

Q And is that why you sent it to me?

A Yes.

Q And with regard to 500-0, are there more --

with regard to 500-M, what is 500-M, Mr. Armstrong?

A 500-M is a questionnaire from the Explorers

Club from 1947, and it was filled out by Mr. Hubbard in

response to the Explorers Club questionnaire.

Q And is 500-N an application?

MR. LITT: Is that M or N?

MR.FLYNN: M was what the witness just testified about.

Now we are referring to 500-N.

MR. LITT: Okay.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: Was that an application for the

Explorers Club that accompanied 500-M?

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A They were not directly connected. There is a

number of years between them. The questionnaire is 1947.

The application is 1939-1940.

Q Are there representations made both on 500-M

and 500-N about Mr. Hubbard's background?

A Yes.

Q And did you find representations on those two

exhibits to be false?

A Some of them, yes.

Q Now, with regard to 500-O, what is 500-O?

A 500-O is a SEA Organization Executive Directive

Flag dated 28 May 1975, and it is a mimeo issue which is put

out at Flag which was on the 20th of May we were on board

the ship.

This had to do with a survey which was done for

the LRH image and a survey of personality traits, and I felt

that in sending it to you that it was important in that it

showed what Scientologists as a group, in fact, were looking

for, what they considered as important personality traits.

Q And what was the most important?

A Under vital traits, 66 percent was "honest."

Other big ones are "allow others to be themselves, truthful,

trustworthy."

Q Do you know how this image survey was conducted?

A It was laid out here. I don't recall exactly,

but it would give how the tabulations were done, on how many

people it was done.

Q And who was it done on?

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A It was done on 175 field and on-board

Scientologists -- oh, wait, 275.

Q And from what areas of the world?

A From West U.S., which is here; East U.S., which

is the East Coast; UK and Anzo, which is Australia-New Zealand.

Q This survey, do you know why it was done? Was

it ordered by L. Ron Hubbard?

A It says that it is, yes.

Q And do you know why it was done?

A Surveys were done in order to establish buttons

which were then used for sales or PR purposes to -- if the

public sought honesty, if they felt like this was a very

desirable trait, then honesty was something which you would

include in pieces -- public relations statements or when

selling products connected with Mr. Hubbard in this case, so

honesty would be something that would be included as an

observable part of any PR or sales campaign.

Q Now, with regard to Exhibit P, what is

Exhibit P?

THE COURT: 500-P?

MR. FLYNN: 500-P.

THE WITNESS: 500-P is another SEA Organization

Executive Directive. It is dated 19 September 1975, and this

is a survey which was done regarding the LRH biography.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: With regard to information that

people wanted to know about L. Ron Hubbard?

A Right. They were first of all looking to see

whether or not an LRH biography was a product which

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establish what aspects of his life or of a biography would

appeal to them.

Q And what was the percentage of Scientologists

who wanted a biography?

A 89 percent.

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Q Now, what is exhibit 500-Q?

A 500-Q is a flagship order which is a type of order

which was issued aboard the ship. And it is dated 8 January

1975. And it is entitled "Facts About L. Ron Hubbard."

Q Was this distributed on board the ship, if you

recall?

A Yes, it was.

Q And among these various exhibits that contain

biographical sketches, are there misrepresentations from one

biographical sketch to another?

A Do you mean is there something common or some

contradiction between them?

Q Are there contradictions between them?

A Yes, there are.

Q And with regard to 500-R, what is 500-R?

A 500-R is an executive directive from L. Ron Hubbard.

It is dated July l2, 1968.

Q Why did you send me that document?

A It has to do with the Pers Sec position. And it

has to do with LRH finances. And it has to do with the claim

that he had resigned from control in 1968. And this, to me,

evidences some control over finances subsequent to 19 -- did

I '68? '66.

Q And with regard to Pers Sec, why did you send it

to me in connection with the duties of the Pers Sec?

A Because the Pers Sec was -- Pers Sec later came

to mean a number of things. But there was a Pers Sec in the

UK who was a nonscientologist. I thought that this had some

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functions within the scientology network and that the same

kinds of rules applied. She is handling accounts for him and --

Q Is there reference with regard to 10 percent of

the moneys that go to L. Ron Hubbard's accounts that were

collected by World Wide?

A Yes.

Q What does "WW" mean?

A World Wide was the -- it was the office in the

UK which was at that time ostensibly to be in control of

scientology.

Q And this was two years after L. Ron Hubbard

supposedly resigned; is that correct?

A Yes.

Q Was this contrary to the representations made in

the document "What Your Fees Buy" that L. Ron Hubbard was not

getting any money from the church?

A I saw that it was a part of the evidence which

would show conclusively that he in fact did have control and

was receiving moneys.

Q And is that why you sent it to me?

A Yes.

Q And was some of the materials in here contrary

to what was being told scientologists throughout the period

you were involved?

A I believe so. I believe that they show that that

document and the same one in his handwriting shows that he

was issuing orders and was in control at that point.

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Q Now, the attachment to 500-R is the same document,

only in the handwriting of L. Ron Hubbard; is that correct?

A Yes.

Q Do you recognise that to be the handwriting of

L. Ron Hubbard?

A Yes.

Q That showed that L. Ron Hubbard had issued this

executive directive?

A Yes.

Q And is that why you sent it to me?

A Yes.

THE COURT: We'll take a recess at this time. We'll

reconvene at 1:30.

(At 11:58 a.m. a recess was taken

until 1:30 p.m. of the same day.)

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--oOo--

THE COURT: Very well, we are back in session.

Counsel are present.

GERALD ARMSTRONG,

resumed the stand and testified further as follows:

THE COURT: The witness has retaken the stand.

Just state your name again for the record, sir.

You are still under oath.

THE WITNESS: Gerald Armstrong.

THE COURT: Okay, you may continue, counsel.

MR. FLYNN: Thank you, Your Honor.

DIRECT EXAMINATION (Resumed)

BY MR. FLYNN:

Q Now, Mr. Armstrong, referring again to exhibit

500-P entitled "LRH Biography Survey"; were there items

contained on pages 2 and 3 that you thought were significant

in connection with sending that document to myself and

Mr. Bunch?

A Yes. I considered that the answers to the survey

questions especially which related to -- directly to the

biography and directly to Mr. Hubbard's attainments, and some

of the answers indicated that people were expecting a particular

thing and they were not getting it.

The question, "What makes people feel closest to

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The answer, the largest survey response was,

"Communication from LRH."

Included in that was personal letters from him,

and people were not getting personal letters. They were getting

false letters. They were being led to believe they were

getting personal letters from him.

And the question, "What do people admire most about

Ron?" 30 percent, which was the largest response said, "The

volume of his attainments, especially Scientology and Dianetics

Tech."

The second biggest response was "His persistence,

courage, purpose, certainty."

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Q And with regard to Item No. 9 on page 3, what was

the largest percentage that -- what factor represented the

largest percentage of things that people wanted to hear Ron

talk about?

A His own experiences and activities.

Q Now, with regard to exhibit R, 500-R, which is

in the handwriting of L. Ron Hubbard, did that relate to or

have reference to the fact that the personal office of L. Ron

Hubbard handled his personal affairs?

A Yes.

Q And in 1980-1981, were you in the personal office

of L. Ron Hubbard?

A That is correct.

Q Now, why did you send exhibit 500-S to my office

or to Contos & Bunch?

A This document entitled "Executive Directive See

Organizational Executive Directive, 18 February 1976," shows

that the personal -- the Pers PRO Bureau, called the Office

of LRH Personal PRO International is in the personal office

of L. Ron Hubbard and goes on to describe it as Ron's personal

or own personal organization to serve him directly or to assist

him in his many activities.

This document describes the post of LRH Personal

PRO International which was part of the PR Bureau of which

I was a part.

Q And that document is dated when, Mr. Armstrong?

A 18 February 1976.

Q And did part of exhibit 500-S show the command

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A Yes. This is actually a different document. And

we stapled it together, I believe, during our examination of

the documents. And it is a flag bureau data letter. And the

flag bureau is where the organization was at this time in

Clearwater or on board the ship. And they had to do with the

international management of all scientology and peripheral

organizations.

And this contains -- this is dated 8 December 1975.

And it contains a little sketch which shows how the personal

PRO's are underneath L. Ron Hubbard.

Q And exhibit 500-T, which has been marked as

Defense Exhibit DD, is the documents.

Why did you send me that, Mr. Armstrong?

A That had particular significance which I mentioned

to you earlier; that it began the research project; that it

was the first instance in which I noted contradictions between

what Mr. Hubbard had said publicly in various places. And

this contained a number of these contradictions. And I

considered it very significant from that viewpoint.

Q And that, again, was dated February 1980; is that

correct?

A Yes.

Q Relating back to an incident that occurred before

and then after the war; is that correct?

A Yes.

Q How many contradictions in a single piece of paper

did you find in connection with Mr. Hubbard's background?

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A There is about four or five fairly clear contra-

dictions.

Q What are they?

A First of all, that he had written the screen play

for "Dive Bomber" for Warner Brothers.

Secondly, the posh Riverside Drive apartment, the

fact that he said, "Mail a check"; that the check was to go

to the Explorers Club; that there was a holiday in the Caribbean

at the end of the war; that they didn't have movies where

Mr. Hubbard went during the war.

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Q Now, with regard to the posh New York office

which he closed just before shipping out for the South

Pacific, are there documents among the Naval documents that

relate to his financial position and creditors chasing him

for the first few years of the war?

A Yes.

Q With regard to document 500-U, why was that sent

to Mr. Bunch or to myself?

A I think this relates to a --

Q Make that Ms. Dragojevic. She wants to get

inculpated, Your Honor. So this relates to an around-the-

world trip, I recall, and it was in Mr. Hubbard's

handwriting, and it is simply -- I don't have a date on it,

but it would have been in the '60s and he is first of all

referring to himself as Dr. Hubbard, and secondly he is

writing it as if to be from someone else, and he is talking

about an around-the-world flight, and I only thought that it

might have some significance because to me it evidenced the

same sort of mentality and the same hyperbole that he had

been putting out about himself for so many years, and here

he is an adult of 50-some-odd years old and he still is

producing the same sort of -- I don't know, braggadocio or

something like that.

Q When you say he wrote this as if someone else

was writing it, what do you mean by that? You mean he was

producing it as a PR or propaganda tool as if written by

someone else when he, in fact, wrote it?

A Right, that's correct.

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MR. HARRIS: I will object to that, Your Honor.

Leading, calling for a conclusion.

THE COURT: I will sustain the objection. It seems to

me -- maybe there is something he can read from that that --

from which he drew certain conclusions.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: How does it start off,

Mr. Armstrong, under Dr. Hubbard?

A (Reading:)

"Dr. L. Ron Hubbard of Saint Hill

Manor has just returned to East Grinstead from

a jet flight around the world in 32 days."

Q And who was it sent to?

THE COURT: If it was.

THE WITNESS: Well, the instructions are to type and

send at once to East Grinstead Observer. Someone named

"Norma" then in the Hubbard communications office Worldwide

was to get this -- was to type it.

MR. FLYNN: May I have the next batch in order,

please?

Q Did that end up with "S" or "T"?

A This is "U".

THE COURT: Why don't you hand me the collection and I

can return them to the clerk.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: Now, directing your attention to

exhibit 500-V, Mr. Armstrong, which bears at the top "To

Rhona; Write letter to Daily Sketch as follows:"

Why did you sent that to me?

A There were a number of documents which showed

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correspondence to authorities, to the police and so on, and

then had someone else sign his or her name to it or an

organizational post to it, and I sent them because it

indicated this pattern of having other people in the

organization front for him.

In this particular one he threatened -- there is

a suit against the Daily Sketch, and that is the reason. It

indicated as well a pattern of using the law and threatening

use of the law on a continual basis.

Q Now, where in this document, exhibit 500-V, did

it indicate that the document was being written or -- strike

that.

The document is in L. Ron Hubbard's handwriting;

is that correct?

A That is correct.

Q And under the instructions he was advising that

someone else issue it under someone else's name?

A Yes, the person "Rhona" was to type it. One

document was to be signed by the secretary of the Hubbard

Association of Scientologists International. Another was to

be signed by Jack P. secretary.

There was a Jack Parkhouse involved at that time

who was an officer in one of the corporations.

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Mr. Hubbard claims at this point that,

apparently, the person who wrote it, the man "Scott," is a

known mental patient. And this struck me because it is the

sort of wild allegation which he has made in attacking

anyone who he perceived as attacking him and then using

someone else to sign and to front for him.

Q Now, what, if anything, did he show you with

regard to Hubbard's use of corporations to do his personal

business?

A Well, I can't tell you at this time because my

recollection -- I believe this is written during a time in

which he was the -- actually, was a director. I considered

it important just to show the fact that he did use

throughout that period other people to front for him which

practice continues to this day.

Q Now, in that document did he claim that he was

an author and not a medical practitioner?

A No. It was a mental practitioner.

Q A mental practitioner?

A Right.

Q Did you find other documents where he claimed to

be a mental practitioner?

A Yes. There are.

Q In this one he was claiming that he was not, but

he was an author; is that correct?

A That is another reason why I sent the documents

that I did send, because even between the documents there

are contradictions as to what Mr. Hubbard was claiming at

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of opportunism. Depending on the particular situation, he

would claim to be a -- at one point a mental practitioner;

at another point, deny it; at one point to say that he is a

scientist; at another point to claim that he is a religious

leader. And there were contradictions which ran throughout

the documentation, depending on the situation.

Q Now, why did you send exhibit 500-W, the data

sheet?

A That is because it is in Mr. Hubbard's writing

and contains in his own writing the claim that he was --

that he had a Bachelor of Science; also, in here he claims

that Scientology is a branch of psychology. In other places

he attacks psychology and psychologists, claiming that they

don't know anything and that Scientology is a religion.

So he changed his story from time to time,

depending on the situation.

Q Now, why did you send me exhibit 500-X?

A This is one of the biographies which I believe

has already been -- we have already gone over this one.

This is the same document as the four-page brief biography

of L. Ron Hubbard that I believe is HR -- and so, for the

same reasons, this is just another example of it. This is a

publication which I saw, one of the first documents, in

getting into Scientology.

Q Now, do you know whether this particular exhibit

was widely disseminated in the late 1960s when you got

involved with the organizations, Mr. Armstrong?

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A I really can't say how widely.

I saw this publication very early. I really

have no way of knowing. I have seen this same thing written

in different manners, in different formats.

My best estimate is that it was very widely

published and distributed.

Q Does this contain the same contradictions and

misrepresentations you found with regard to Mr. Hubbard's

biographical background that you found in earlier

biographical sketches?

A Yes.

MR. LITT: Objection; vague.

What same?

THE WITNESS: Oh, well --

MR. HARRIS: We get the picture, Your Honor.

THE COURT: I'll Overrule the objection.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: 500-Y, Mr. Armstrong, why did you

send my office that?

A This is a transcript of a lecture given by

Mr. Hubbard. The lecture is a broadly published and sold

lecture. And it is called "The Story of Dianetics and

Scientology."

The initial reason why I had this had to do with

the fact that in here is information on The Dive Bomber

incident. And also, there is information in here on the --

on Commander Thompson.

For me, it was a research tool. But ultimately

it indicate where throughout this lecture Mr. Hubbard had

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Q And did you hear the lecture with L. Ron

Hubbard's voice?

A Yes.

Q Of which that is a tape transcription; is that

correct?

A Yes.

Q What specifically was in there in reference to

The Dive Bomber?

A There is -- he has got about -- there is just

about a minute, maybe more or less, devoted to The Dive

Bomber.

This is, again, one of the things that set me

off, where he says "I had sold a movie Dive Bomber. You may

have seen the thing. Wallace Beery" and so forth way back.

I checked the credits and so forth. And Wallace

Beery was not in the movie Dive Bomber. So that also set me

off because one of the conclusions that I came to throughout

all of this was that Mr. Hubbard's memory probably is very

faulty on what exactly he had done and who exactly he had

worked with in various things because the contradictions

were so voluminous that there probably is no way that he

could have kept them straight after a while.

The contradictions just between this and the

other story itself, without knowing everything else about

the man, are considerable.

In here there is -- he said, "I had never told

any of my relatives about it, about the money. And I popped

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In the other one, he was having a check sent to

the Explorer's Club.

MR. LITT: Can we have the page number?

MR. FLYNN: Page 17.

THE WITNESS: He said, "Well, I got out of the war; I

didn't take that for finances. I must confess to you that

this subject, study in finance in advance was not really by

the sweat of my brow. I took that and bought a yacht and

went to cruise in the West Indies at the end of the war."

Then there is another thing here about

collecting the treasury checks. And that was, again, a part

of it because, "I had a nice big thick sheaf of treasury

checks," but in other documents, he was flat broke and

requesting a few dollars a month from the VA. So this was

one of the initial things which I got at the very outset of

the research. And it amounted to a great number of

contradictions.

Q And 500-Z, Mr. Armstrong; why did you send that

to my office?

A I sent this because it is in Mr. Hubbard's

handwriting. It had to do with his writing his own

biographical materials to appear in a book "Who's Who In

California." And this is done in '67 and contained then

some of the lies and hyperbole which I came to recognize as

Mr. Hubbard's.

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The main thing was that it was in his own

writing, and the war record here was important, service in

five theaters 1940 to -46, 21 medals and palms, resigned

1950.

Q Now, with regard to 500-double B, and for the

record 500-double A I can't find, Your Honor, which is a

summary of his naval career.

THE COURT: Is there something indicating it is not --

THE CLERK: The asterisk.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: Let me ask you this: In going

through the sealed documents several weeks ago, do you recall

a shortened version of the summary of Mr. Hubbard's naval

career?

A Yes.

Q That was in the sealed documents?

A Yes.

Q And when you ware conducting your research --

MR. LITT: Can we take a look at that?

MR. FLYNN: I have another copy for you.

Q When you were conducting your research, did

you get a longer version of the summary of Mr. Hubbard's

naval career?

A I had not -- among the Hubbard materials, I had

something which is very similar to this document here.

I also had a copy of this document, and I also

had a chronology composed of the documents which were from

Mr. Hubbard's archives which showed where he was practically

on a day-to-day, if not week-to-week, basis.

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Q Now, with regard to the daily chronology, where

was that left, Mr. Armstrong?

A Well, it was -- Mr. Garrison was provided with

such a set of documents, the overall chronology. Another

copy was made, and it was left in the Hubbard archives,

although the originals were left in the Hubbard archives.

Q How, how did you reconstruct the daily

chronology?

A Well, I went through all the naval records

which I could find from the various sources. The majority

of them came from the Dal Sol materials, and I put them all

into chronological order so that they were by binder by year.

So, I had a binder of materials for each year of the war,

although the final binder covered 1945 through, I guess,

1950.

Q Now, this exhibit which I have shown you which,

Your Honor, may it be marked next in order in Defendant's

Exhibits?

THE COURT: WW, double-W.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: Just briefly, what did you

conclude was the, in summary form, was the chronology of

Mr. Hubbard's activities during his naval career during

World War II?

A It was not at all how it had been represented

in the biographical material published up to that time on

Mr. Hubbard. He was not a hero. He had not seen combat.

He was not crippled and blinded. He was not wounded. He

had never commanded a squadron of Corvettes. He was given

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before it had ever put to sea, and he lost command of the

second one on a shakedown cruise when he fired on the

Mexican Coast.

There was a recurring pattern of malingering,

of fainting, medical problems, and of false reporting to his

superiors.

Q Now, with regard to --

MR. HARRIS: I am confused, Your Honor, as to whether

this is supposed to be Exhibit double-A under seal or

whether this is a document which should be under seal and

isn't or what exactly the source of this is.

THE COURT: WW?

MR. HARRIS: Yes.

MR. FLYNN: I believe I clarified that with a question,

but I will ask it again.

Q Mr. Armstrong, who is Mr. Hess?

A William Hess is a person that, although I never

met, I knew the name also as Michael Linn Shannon, and Hess

or Shannon was someone who I learned in 1981 was himself

doing extensive research into the past and credentials and

background of Mr. Hubbard. And I obtained a copy of this

document at the time and I really don't know if it came from

someone by the name of Perry Chapdelaine, an old Dianeticist

who obtained information from Hess or Shannon, if it came

from the Clearwater report, because I also had a copy of

that, or also documents collected by Hess or Shannon were

provided by Vaughn Young because he had access to them from

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one point, which was even more extensive than the materials

I had from Shannon at that point.

So the copy I had or copies could have come

from a number of sources outside the organization. This is

not something which was included in Mr. Hubbard's archives

at that time.

MR. LITT: But obtained while he was an employee and

before he left the Church?

MR. FLYNN: Your Honor, I will represent to the Court

that that particular document, WW, comes from my files which

I have had for years.

Now, what we found in the naval files was a

shortened version of that chronology in the archives which

we thought marked double-A. It could have been our error

when we marked these documents and that may explain why

there is no double-A, but I believe that there is a

shortened version of Exhibit WW under seal.

Q Is that correct, Mr. Armstrong?

A Yes, it is.

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THE COURT: All right.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: Now --

MR. HARRIS: I assume, therefore, that this document

was not sent to Mr. Flynn in some defense; since Mr. Flynn

now claims that it was his document; that he has had it for

years; is that right?

THE COURT: Do you have any recollection of sending a

copy of this to Mr. Flynn and Contos & Bunch?

THE WITNESS: No, I don't, Your Honor.

THE COURT: That is exhibit WW, Mr. Armstrong?

THE WITNESS: Correct.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: However, there is in your memory

a shorter version of exhibit WW under seal; is that correct?

A Yes. There is something that is right along the

lines which explain the chronology, something which explains

the medals earned during the war.

Q Now, with regard to exhibit 500-BB, why did you

send that to my office?

A Well, I sent you a great number of medical

records or military records, rather, Naval records. And the

reason that I sent all of the Naval records was because that

was a period in Mr. Hubbard's life which resulted in a great

number of lies and misrepresentations. And it was that

period which I relied on. And it was a period in which the

stories which were told, you know, caused in me a great deal

of reverence in which I held the man.

Q Was that your understanding with -- what was

your understanding with regard to the period out of which

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A that Dianetics came out of his necessity to

confront his blindness and his lameness and to use what he

knew of the mind and of atomic physics, of the wisdom of the

East in order to synthesize the subject, the science of

Dianetics.

Q Now, is there something significant to the date

of exhibit 500-BB?

A I think the significance to me, what I noted,

the date of this examination, this is a report of physical

examination for appointment as an officer. And it is dated

4-18-41.

What struck me was that the vision, the eyes,

the test for his eyes indicated a -- on one hand, a 17-20

vision on the right eye, 17-20, and on the left, 15-20. And

this was prior to the war. And his vision at the end of the

war was not very different from this in the various eye

tests that he took. And this is at the end of the war. You

know, sometime later he was claiming that he was blinded.

And I saw no evidence whatsoever of his ever having been

blinded; in fact, the vision pre-war and post-war was quite

similar.

Q And, again, that was in April of 1941?

A Yes.

Q And do you recall from your recollection when

L. Ron Hubbard received his orders to go to Australia?

A I don't have any exact date, but I would think

sometime in December 1941.

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Q And do you recall when he arrived in Australia?

A Sometime in January '42.

Q And do you recall how long he remained in

Australia?

A Not real close, but my recollection is he left

in either February or March 1942.

Q So it would be less than 60 days; is that

correct?

A Yes.

Q Do you know whether Mr. Hubbard subsequently

made a claim for defective vision from tropical sunlight?

A Yes.

Q Is that among the records we are going to get

to?

A Yes.

Q Why did you send my office --

Incidentally, when Mr. Hubbard left Australia,

under what circumstances we he ordered back to the United

States?

A He had apparently caused a problem with his

superiors in Australia. And there was a letter -- it wasn't

exactly a letter of admonition, but it was definitely not a

recommendation, which preceded him back to the U.S. He

had -- it appears he had been hard to control or he wouldn't

follow orders or something to that effect.

But in any case, he did not leave Australia in

good graces.

Q Now, in your research did you determine what the

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the Philippines that was going on at the time and the need

for America to have men in the battle for the Philippines

during the early part of 1942?

A No. I never got into it at that time.

Q With regard to exhibit 500-CC, why did you send

that to me, Mr. Armstrong?

A This had to do with the necessity of

time-tracking -- a Scientology word, building a chronology

regarding Mr. Hubbard's activities and where he was at

certain times. Because the -- all of the claims that

Mr. Hubbard has made regarding his Naval career and the

heroism and the medals and the theaters of war in which he

participated can only be shown in the mass of the documents

which show on a very day-to-day basis where he was. This

has to do with the end of the war.

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Q Do you recall an endorsement on documents that

Mr. Hubbard was found to be physically qualified for release

from active duty on 5 December 1945?

A That is included in there.

Q And what if anything significant did you place

on the claim of Mr. Hubbard that he was crippled and blinded

at the end of World War II with regard to Exhibit double-C,

Mr. Armstrong?

A I think that that and also indicating the

movement of where he was at the time in conjunction with the

other documents shows conclusively that he was not crippled

and blinded.

Q Now, with regard to Exhibit double-D,

Mr. Armstrong, why did you send that to my office?

THE COURT: Well, I think probably it should be noted

that on Exhibit CC the bottom appears to be an affidavit

signed by Mr. Hubbard signifying that the information was

true and correct to the best of his knowledge and ability,

5 December 1945.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: Why did you send me Exhibit

double-D, Mr. Armstrong?

A It is entitled "A Record of Proceedings in the

Naval Medical Survey Review Board" convened at the Navy

Department by order of the Secretary of the Navy. It is

dated June 11, 1948.

This document, in conjunction with other

documents, shows that Mr. Hubbard was not crippled and

blinded. Additionally, that he was making claims throughout

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he had cured himself completely during this period. I sent

it because to me it indicated the -- was part of the fraud

which was being perpetrated on the Navy, the Veterans

Administration and later on all Scientologists and potential

Scientologists.

Q Now, with regard to page No. 2 on Exhibit

double-D, did you find that there was -- when you sent this

document to me, that there was a notation accompanying

Mr. Hubbard's petition for veterans pension that he had

claimed that he spent the ensuing year in a civilian hospital

at his own expense?

A Yes.

Q And then the notation that he was asked to

provide information to support the claim that he spent a

year in a civilian hospital after World War II, and the

notation was made that he did not produce any documentation;

is that correct?

A Yes.

Q Now, in fact, in other documents that are

coming up, were you able to pretty much trace Mr. Hubbard's

chronology during the year after World War II?

A Yes.

Q And among other things in the summer of 1942,

did he marry Sarah Northrup bigamously?

A Yes.

MR. LITT: Your Honor --

THE COURT: I will sustain the objection.

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Q BY HR. FLYNN: Were you able to find whether

Mr. Hubbard had spent any time in a civilian hospital after

World War II?

A No.

Q Now, with regard to Exhibit 500-double E, in

directing your attention to the parts that are paper clipped,

why did you send these documents to my office, Mr. Armstrong?

A All of these documents refer to medical reports,

naval records, medical surveys, all either at the end of the

war or during a few years thereafter.

There are some earlier ones in here as well.

Taken altogether, they show that the claims made by

Mr. Hubbard regarding his military career are not true. That

he had lied regarding being crippled and blinded and being

lame at the end of the rear and curing himself of blindness

and injury.

Q And does the first paper clipped document

indicate that Mr. Hubbard suffered from duodenal ulcers at

the end of the war?

A Yes.

Q And do the records in general relate to various

representations that were made by Mr. Hubbard before the

Naval Retirement Board?

A There is information on that as well.

Q That contain representations about his

activities during World War II?

A Yes.

Q And did you find those representations to be

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A I can't recall the specifics right now, but

there is -- it is possible to show that the representations

from point to point vary, and some of them at least are false.