MIKE McCLAUGHRY: My name is Mike McClaughry. I’m a Scientologist. I got into Scientology in late 1968, and in early 1969 I went on staff at the San Francisco org. Um, the first three or four years I was on staff, I was an auditor and a Course Supervisor, basically Course Supervisor for the Academy Levels and every other course that Scientology delivered at that time. Um, I liked the tech then and I still like it today. And in mid 1973, I was approached to join the Guardian’s Office at the San Francisco org. And at the time I did not want to get out of tech, and I declined their offer and said basically “No, I’m not interested”, you know, “I want to stay working with the tech.” So they re-approached me again a few weeks later–um, by the way, Kathy O’Gorman was the Assistant Guardian at the San Francisco org at the time; she was to become my senior. Uh, Doug Nopston was the Assistant Guardian for Information, which is a euphemism for Intelligence, and he was the one that was trying to recruit me. Um, anyway, I was approached a couple of weeks later again to join the Guardian’s Office, and they made me an offer which was that I would get to go–I was at the time a Power Release, which is a Grade 5, and they made me an offer that I could go up to OT4 if I would join the Guardian’s Office and so I bit on that and I said, “Okay”, and I joined the Guardian’s Office so that I could get some auditing.

Um, so I went down–I guess it was mid summer of ‘73–I went down to take my, uh, training at the United States Guardian’s Office, which was in Los Angeles, and the person who was, um, the Deputy Guardian Intelligence United States, uh, at that time was Terry Milner. Um, Dick Weigand was, uh, one of his juniors; I’m not sure what post he was holding at the time. And Greg, uh, I don’t remember his last name off the top of my head–Willardson–Greg Willardson was also working with him. And they were over the, uh, course students, overseeing the training of the course students.

It took me six months to finish my hatting in the Guardian’s Office. Um, I read all the various materials that, um, for the Intelligence Bureau, that you might see on the Internet or appearing in court cases or Hat Packs since then, and I would have personal knowledge that the issues in those Hat Packs are correct and were the ones that were studied and were the ones that we used and applied in our daily work. Um, I’ll talk about some of those in detail and give you some examples of what I did to apply those issues. Um, my understanding was that the issues were primarily from LRH. Some of the issues, um, had nobody’s name on it but just by the way they were written, I assumed they were from LRH. Um, some of ‘em were from Mary Sue Hubbard; some of them might have been from the Guardian who was Jane Kember, um, but some of them didn’t have Jane Kember’s name or Mary Sue Hubbard’s name on them, um, and I think that LRH wrote them.


MIKE McCLAUGHRY: Um, the two specific ones that I’m talking about, they weren’t under any kind of a normal issue like a Policy Letter or a Guardian Order or ED or anything, right? It was just typing on a piece of paper. Um, one was called “Intelligence: Its Role” and the other one was–I don’t even know that it had a name; but it told us how to do, um, black intelligence operations, this particular piece of paper. And, like I said, there was no author of those two things; although my understanding, impression and so forth was that they were written by LRH, because of the style of them. You know, I’ve read a lot of his stuff, I know how he talks, I know how he writes, and I couldn’t imagine anybody else to have written them except him because of the style of the–of how they were written


MIKE McCLAUGHRY: The basic idea was that Intelligence was supposed to collect information and form what was called an estimate of the situation. An estimate of the situation was not something that was cast in stone or something that you could necessarily prove in court, but based on as much information about the enemy as you could ascertain. Um, you were supposed to be able to determine whether there was a situation with the enemy that needed to be handled or whether there was no situation, and basically you were supposed to be able to form a prediction, uh, like in any war situation, you know; you infiltrate the enemy, uh, you determine his size, his strength, what his next move is gonna be, if he’s gonna make one, you know, uh, that kind of a thing. And the whole idea of the estimate of the situation, which was a primary product of the Intelligence Unit, was to make a prediction: What’s the enemy going to do, when, where, what strength and so on and so forth, right? And having made that prediction, then Intelligence was supposed to handle the situation before it ever happened. And any time an attack came on the organization that was unpredicted, it was considered to be an Intelligence failure. All somebody had to do was criticize Scientology and they would be considered an enemy. For instance, if they wrote a book that was negative on it in any form, if they got on a TV show or radio show–you didn’t even have to go that far; if they were just talking to their neighbors and we heard of it! (laughter)


MIKE McCLAUGHRY: If an attack happens that Intelligence didn’t predict, we didn’t–we weren’t out of the ball game, that didn’t mean that, you know. Um, we kind of judged the severity of the attack and how bad it was by the different bureaus. The bureaus were laid out in a sequence. If Intelligence failed and, and an attack occurred, and Intelligence wasn’t handling it, uh, then it went over to PR. Uh, PR–then we tried to PR our way out of the attack. Uh, if PR failed, then the next thing it would go over to, the next bureau, was the Legal Bureau and you tried to sue your way out of the attack. And if that failed, the last bureau was Finance and you’d buy your way out of the attack! (laughter).

The datum is that Intelligence is supposed to predict and handle all attacks. Uh, even if it wasn’t predicted, Intelligence was supposed to handle it. No other bureau was supposed to be on, doing a damn thing, okay? If Intelligence is doing its job. They should all be sitting around with their feet on their desks with nothing to do, okay? Intelligence is supposed to handle it all, all by itself. Um, when Intelligence was having difficulty with a particular attacker and they weren’t getting the person handled, then other bureaus would enter the picture and they’d try to PR their way out of it, sue their way out of it or buy their way out of it. But, uh, that was all considered to be an Intelligence failure.


MIKE McCLAUGHRY: Intelligence also had internal security to deal with. Part of our training was a book called “The Spy & His Masters”. This book taught you how to be a Case Officer. That’s what–that’s the “master” part of the title, “The Spy & His Masters” and the Case Officer is the master of the spy. Um, this–the technique used would be to determine the spy’s motivation. Um, money was considered to be the lowest motivation. You don’t wanna recruit spies who, uh, are money-motivated because they’ll turn on you in a second; if the other side offers them another 10 bucks more, they’re on their side! (laughter) So, uh, you try and avoid–you would have to determine what is this person’s motivation as being a spy for us, try to avoid people doing it for money, try to avoid people–the next one up was people who, uh, were maybe ambit–you know, they had some ambition to get promoted within the organization, something like that, was why they were doing it for you; try to avoid those as well. Um, I think the next one up was, uh, people who had some political reason for doing it. Um, (clears throat) you know, in our case we weren’t in the politics, but what that meant to me was like they had some kind of allegiance to the organization, uh, they agreed with what you were doing and that kind of a thing. The top motivation was duty; the person was doing it out of a sense of responsibility. And those were the kind of spies we tried to recruit because they were the safest, um, most unlikely to turn, uh, that, that kind of a thing.

Uh, when I say “spy”, I’m talking about somebody who lives their cover. I’m not talking about somebody who does a 10 minute, um–well, we called them “suitable guises”; there’s other words for ‘em like “pretext interviews”, that kind of thing. A pretext interview or a suitable guise would be something that was a short-lived, um, you know, you got throwaway type cover for a temporary situation. Um–geez, I can hardly think of one. Uh, let’s say I just wanted to know your telephone number, okay? And so I call up–I don’t, I don’t know your telephone number or maybe I can’t find you, I don’t know where you live. But I know where your mother lives, okay? So I call up your mother and say I’m your friend and I’m looking for you, can you tell me your phone number, and I get it, okay? That’s a–that’s a suitable guise or a pretext interview, okay? That’s a throwaway thing, you know, you just use it once, it’s–it’s there for a few minutes and it’s gone, you know. Uh, you got the information you wanted. Those were commonly used, but I’m not talk–when I say “spy”, I don’t mean that. I mean somebody who is just like in the normal intelligence community, um, the government’s–their kind of spies that they use on each other. These–you know, those people live their cover. They have false identities in a lot of cases, and we did know how to make false identities for people.


MIKE McCLAUGHRY: You basically go out and you look for an infant death in the newspaper around the age period of the person who’s gonna be the spy, okay? Um, an infant death, you know, there’s a birth certificate on record there, but there’s nobody who ever lived that life. So you get their birth certificate and you go out and you get yourself a driver’s license, uh, a Social Security card and every other kind of ID you want, and assume that person’s name. That’s how you do it–

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: How do you get a birth certificate?

MIKE McCLAUGHRY: Well, back then–you know, I think laws have changed a little bit. Back then, I mean, you just walk in; it’s public record, you know? I want a copy of it, they didn’t ask any questions.


MIKE McCLAUGHRY: You know, give you a copy of it and down you go to the DMV with it–”This is me, give me a driver’s license” and do the whole bit, right? You build a whole false identity (laughs), and there you go. So that’s how that was done. That–that would be a deep cover type of spy. Now, this person is–when I say they’re living this false identity, uh, that’s what I mean. They’re going by this false name, they have false–you know, everything’s false. One of the nice things about that is this person could do every kind of thing you ever heard of and never get blamed for it as his real identity, you know what I’m saying? (laughs) Um, it just wouldn’t track back to him. Um, we didn’t do a lot of that. Mostly people would use their own real names, but they were still deep cover spies because they were living their cover every day. Um, in some–a lot of cases they had false names, uh, without going through the process of actually, you know, building a total false identity for ‘em. They would just–say that we sent ‘em in to infiltrate the anti-cult movement, for instance, which is something I specifically did. Um, what I did was I took a Scientologist–we wanted to infiltrate the anti-cult movement. Um, I expelled this Scientologist so on paper it looked like they were expelled, you know. We wrote out the Ethics Orders, the whole bit, um, false Comm Ev, everything like that, and then this person was kicked out of the church. Um, in everybody’s mind in the church this person was expelled Scientologist. Uh, the only people who knew that they weren’t was, you know, the guys in the Intelligence Bureau. And that’s a deep cover spy. So this person would go out and, uh, they were using their actual name, uh, but their cover was, it was that they were, uh, no longer in Scientology, no longer agreed with it, agreed with the anti-cult people, you know, and wanted to do–you know, they were mad at Scientology, they wanted to help the anti-cult movement expose it and stuff like that. And then, so of course they were opened with welcome arms by the anti-cult people and now here we go and now there’s my deep cover spy in the anti-cult movement. So predict, predict, predict–”Oh, they’re gonna deprogram so-and-so tomorrow. Oh, I see.” See what I mean?

This group right here is a target for getting a spy, and they ain’t gonna sleep at night till they do it! (laughs)

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: I’m afraid that’s true.


UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: Hope it’s not you.

MIKE McCLAUGHRY: Well, I’ll tell you something about that that will help you find out who it might be. Because Intelligence is also charged with finding spies in the organization.

Now that person I’m talking about that I sent in on the anti-cult movement–there is a limit to what I would let that person do. Okay? You know, they could criticize, they could help, they could complain, they could natter all they wanted to about Scientology; I really didn’t care. But I would not let ‘em go to a newspaper and say it.


MIKE McCLAUGHRY: I would not let ‘em testify in a court case against Scientology.


MIKE McCLAUGHRY: That’s going too damn far, you’re causing more destruction than you’re worth! (laughs) Okay, you know what I’m saying?




UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: You’d test the person.



MIKE McCLAUGHRY: That’s what I’m telling you.


MIKE McCLAUGHRY: What I’m doing right here–no way, Jose, you ain’t making no tape like that! You know what I’m saying? (laughter) The Case Officer is gonna put us–you know, no, you ain’t doing that. Okay. (laughs)


MIKE McCLAUGHRY: So (laughs) that’s one way to tell.



MIKE McCLAUGHRY: In the case of this spy that I had in the anti-cult movement, um, we were predicting attacks all over the country with that person. Um, I think maybe I was the only one who had successfully infiltrated the anti-cult movement because of what my seniors at USGO were saying. They were always calling me going, “Who’s getting deprogrammed next?” and I was “Well, isn’t there anybody else out there working besides me? Don’t you have any other spies out there (laughs) to tell you?” Because they wanted to know what was happening in New York and Florida and everywhere else, right? And asking me. And I was up in San Francisco. We predicted deprogrammings in other, uh, considered cults–Moonie deprogrammings, you name it, you know. We predicted those as well and prevented a lot of them from happening. We considered them allies, you know, and so if a Moonie was gonna be deprogrammed, um, we would predict that and we would, uh, let them know and they would go hide the person or whatever they had to do, you know, to stop that from happening. That happened because of our spies. Um, mostly, I mean our primary interest, of course, was Scientologists. We predicted those and prevented those from happening.

I did read one of the policies where it said we weren’t supposed to do anything illegal. Um, I became aware in the course of my training that, um, things were being done that were illegal. Uh, I went to the Deputy Guardian for Intelligence US–um, by the way, we didn’t call it the Information Bureau, we called it Intelligence, what it was. Calling it the Information Bureau was the, the only time we referred to it that way was when we were talking to somebody who wasn’t in the GO. And that was kind of our cover, you know, that we were Information; we never told them we were Intelligence. But amongst ourselves, we didn’t call ourselves Information; we were Intelligence. Um, so anyway, I read, you know, “Don’t do anything illegal”. Um, I went to the Deputy Guardian at Intelligence US who was Terry Milner. I said, uh, “Some people aren’t following this policy. They’re doing things that are illegal.” And, uh, he knew about it; that’s what I found out. He says, “Yeah, I know about that.” (laughs) And I says, “Well, they’re violating policy”, you know, “What’s the story here?”, you know, “Do we break the law?” And, uh (laughs)–and he says, “Well, we don’t actually break the law, we just bend it a little bit!” (laughs) And he says, you know–he drew a line on his desk–this guy was kind of a crazy guy, anyway, and, uh, (laughs).


MIKE McCLAUGHRY: And he says, “There’s the law,” you know, and he says, “We kind of cross over that line and then we, for a little bit, and then we scurry back and try to get back and stay within the law.” And so, well, the conclusion I came to was: 1) he knew about it; 2) he was condoning it. And I, out of fear, did not take it any higher than that; I just dropped it. Because I figured if he knew about it, then Worldwide knew about it and I figured Mary Sue knew about it, and I couldn’t imagine her withholding anything from Ron; I figured he must know about it, too. So if I make any waves uplines about it to try to, um, get that activity stopped, uh, you know, then I would be dog meat, you know, so I just dropped it. (laughs)

As far as Intelligence Bureau’s handling of people, there’s an issue–um, I don’t think it has a title, uh, nobody signed it, it’s not any kind of a formal issue; it’s just typing on a piece of paper. Um, my impression was that LRH had written it because I can’t imagine anybody else in the organization writing this and getting away with it; they would have been pounded, you know, to dirt for having written it! (laughter) And, you know, unless it was him. That’s the way I looked at it, plus the way it was written and just like “Intel: Its Role”, it seemed to me that was his writing style. But he–you know, basically, what this issue said was the way that the Intelligence Bureau handles things, um, was that you perform something that I’ll say, what I call ‘em is a Black Intelligence operation, and I’m not the only one who called ‘em that; they’re called Black Ops.


MIKE McCLAUGHRY: One of the datums that we were taught is that anybody that attacks Scientology has crimes. Um, you know, that doesn’t just mean crimes against Scientology; it means crimes in general in the normal society definition and idea of what a crime is. Uh, we were supposed to investigate the background of anybody who attacked and find out what their crimes were. Um, and then prosecute them for it; that was the basic idea. Um, if we couldn’t–and the first thing that would have happened with anybody who attacked us–there’s two types of data collection; one is called “overt data collection”, which we call ODC. Uh, the other type of data collection to be done was “covert data collection” which was called CDC. Um, we did both on any given attacker. We always did ODCs on them and we always did CDCs on them. Um, the overt data collection was just stuff that was publicly available through public records–telephone books, library information, court documents, traffic tickets, you name it, you know. We checked every possible source–voter registration records, you know, just everything you could think of, um, and gathered as much information about that person’s background as we could obtain. Um, then we had a general picture of the person. We knew who his relatives were and who he was connected to, where he worked, all that kind of stuff. That came from overt data collection. Then we go into covert data collection, which was essentially, um, you know, probably getting a spy in on the person and trying to find out what kind of, um, misdeeds the guy was up to, you know. Um, what are this guy’s crimes? You know, what is doing? Is he cheating on his wife? Is he, uh, you know, taking drugs? Is he doing anything else that broke any kind of a law whatsoever? You know, that’s what we were looking for in our covert data collection. Um, if we found crimes, we tried to get the person prosecuted and put in jail. That was the product that we wanted, that was the ideal scene, get this guy behind bars, you know, for criticizing Scientology (laughs), basically. Um, (laughs) that’s where you wanted ‘em; you wanted ‘em in jail. That was the, uh, ideal product to be obtained. Now, a lot of times we could not find, uh, this person committing crimes to put ‘em in jail for, maybe because he didn’t have any and maybe because we just couldn’t find them; either way. Um, and I believe in a lot of case it was just because the guy didn’t really have any; the datum wasn’t true, that just because they attacked, they had crimes. I didn’t find that to be a one-for-one situation anyway. So now, what do you do, you can’t find any actual crimes, so that’s what this particular hatting thing was about was you perform Black Operations on the person. Um, the first, uh, type of Black Operation would be to, uh,–okay, if the guy doesn’t have any actual crimes, well, let’s make him guilty of some crime then! (laughs)

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: You manufacture some.

MIKE McCLAUGHRY: You manufacture some crimes, right? Set ‘em up, sting operation type stuff. Um, oh, I know some that were actually done, I don’t have to give examples. Um, there was a guy in Sacramento named Jim Esterbrook, um, I got one of my agents to go get some, um, drugs, you know, purchase some illegal drugs, marijuana or whatever it was, plant ‘em in the guy’s car and then call the cops on him and try to get him arrested for possession of illegal drugs. Um, geez, just let your imagine run wild because, uh, we were allowed to do that, you know. It’s like anything you could think of was basically okay.


MIKE McCLAUGHRY: Fair Game was a policy letter written by LRH, I guess in the mid ‘60, I think. Um, and it was a fundamental GO policy. Um, Fair Game meant that a Scientologist could do anything to an enemy of Scientology, um, didn’t matter what it was. You could actually physically harm the person. You could lie to them, ch–sue ‘em to poverty, uh, you know, uh, destroy the person’s reputation or physical–destroy them physically if you wanted to, with no repercussion on the Scientologist for having done it. That’s what Fair Game means. Um, yeah, I mean, that’s what–that’s what we were doing; that was our daily job, was to apply that policy. That was our total job, if you ask me. You’re attacking Scientology, you’re Fair Game, you know, whatever we do to you doesn’t really matter, okay? As far as Scientology was concerned, you were no trouble.

I don’t know the details on it, but, uh, it was causing a public relations flap when people were labeled Fair Game. So the issue came out that said, “Stop labeling people Fair Game.” Which was done–okay, we stopped calling people Fair Game. But the action of treating ‘em like Fair Game never stopped, okay? We, they could–that policy was still in effect. I mean, my God, it was the very heart and soul of what we were doing, okay? We would have been out of a job if we stopped doing Fair Game! (laughter)


MIKE McCLAUGHRY: Another type of Black Operation was to get the guy fired from his job. The theory on that was, is that people use their job, their position, uh, what they have to have at work is a kind of a position to attack Scientology from. Um, in a lot of cases that was true; maybe the guy was a government official, he was using his, uh, job as a government official to attack Scientology. So the idea was, let’s cost him his job, get him the heck out of there and then he won’t have that position to attack Scientology from any more. Short of that, it didn’t have to be that he was using his job to attack Scientology from; but in all cases it was at least his support, right? And if you cost him his job, he doesn’t have money and he’s got a major problem to deal with in his life in not having any work and income to support himself. So costing the guy his job was always a good thing to do.

That was also a standard thing to do, was we would always try to cost the guy his job. We would always try to get him in jail and we would always try to cost him his job. Lots of people’s businesses have been destroyed because of this. Um–

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: How did you do it?


UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: How did you destroy their business?

MIKE McCLAUGHRY: Oh, gosh, you know, there’s lots of ways, um, you know, this is not a real example, but let’s say that a guy is emplo–has his own, um, work, right? He has his own company. He of course has clients, right? That buy from him and that kind of a thing. Uh, let’s say that the guy is, um, he makes–he’s an artist and he paints pictures and he’s got certain art studios that normally buy his pictures and sell ‘em for him. They would go to those art studios and, um, just badmouth the guy in any kind of a way, and make the people who buy from him normally decide that they don’t, for whatever reason they have, they don’t like him and they’re not gonna buy from him any more, and he ends up with no business, you know, he goes broke. That would be an example.


MIKE McCLAUGHRY: Um, basically, to cost the guy the job–now, I’m getting back to this issue I’m talking about that teaches you how to do this, this is what it said, right? You fi–you, um, survey the love and the hate buttons of the boss. So this guy has a boss, he’s employed by this person, this company. What are–what does the boss love and what does the boss hate? You were supposed to find that out with your spy. Or you could have found that out with a pretext interview, you know, a suitable guise. (clears throat) Then you, uh, create situations which are always imaginary situations where the boss–you try to line this employee up with whatever the boss hates, okay? So if the guy–uh, you find out the boss hates homosexuals, now you want to get the boss to think that this guy who is attacking Scientology is a homosexual, you know. And because he is a homosexual, now the boss not liking that type of person he’s gonna look for some way to get rid of this guy. He’ll probably find some–you know, you can’t say that’s the reason he’s getting rid of ‘em but that’s the reason he’s getting rid of ‘em, you know. He’ll find some fault with this guy’s work and get rid of ‘em.


MIKE McCLAUGHRY: When I first went on post in early 1974 there was a case called Goodrich. I think his name was Robert Goodrich, Lois–Robert and Lois Goodrich. Uh, this guy was claiming that, uh, he had gotten auditing and, uh, it gave him a headache which wouldn’t go away.(laughter)

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Oh, no. (more laughter)

MIKE McCLAUGHRY: So Ron had written Eval and the guys who were on post for me in San Francisco Intelligence Bureau were not handling it, and the guys at USGO weren’t handling it, and Ron was getting kind of upset about all that. So (laughs) So he wrote that Eval, you guys are missing the boat, you don’t understand the importance of this. This has got to get handled. I don’t know that he wrote any steps out, you know, of what to do; I never saw that. Um, I just know that he wanted it handled. I went on post immediately and that was one of the first things that we did handle, um, and that was a rather simple handling as it turned out because I got a spy in on them. Um, you know, they were there for maybe two months, something like that. Um, the person basically became friends with the wife, Lois Goodrich, and talked her out of doing it. That’s all that happened (laughs), you know it’s, yeah, said–


MIKE McCLAUGHRY: Yeah. Just basically, uh, you know, said, “You know, you really ought to just drop that case with Scientology because, you know, you’re not gonna win, it’s not gonna be worth it, you know, it’s gonna be a lot of headaches” and da-da-da. And because they had become friends, she said, “You know, you’re probably right” and dropped that stupid thing. That’s how that thing got handled.


MIKE McCLAUGHRY: I’ll give you an example of using the love-hate button, okay? This is an actual operation that I did. Um, there was a guy in the Health Department in Sacramento by the name of Jim Esterbrook. Um, he was attacking Narconon. The reason he was attacking Narconon, uh, which we didn’t know at the time, was that he had plans for starting his own drug rehabilitation group in Sacramento, California. Um, he was, uh, an official in the Health Department in Sacramento, State Health Department, okay? And he was using that position to attack Narconon from. He wrote a, a very criticizing report, you know, about that thick (holds his right thumb and index finger about one inch apart) on the subject of Narconon.

We found out that, uh, through the spy that Jim Esterbrook had plans on starting a new drug program which he was going to–he was applying to the state for. He was asking for the state funding for his new drug program which he was gonna hold up in the mountains.

One day, um, me and my right-hand man, uh, took a drive up into the mountain community where this was gonna happen. (laughs) Okay? We picked up a couple of teenage girls that were hitch-hiking on the road, uh, we went swimming in the river with them that day, um, just got into communication with these two teenage girls. And while we were driving them up to–uh, after we went swimming we were driving them up to where they lived. And I said, “By the way, what do people don’t like up here?” Right? I’m working the hate button, see? (laughs) And they say, “Well, we hate hippies.” Right? (laughs) So, I go, “Okay, you guys hate hippies” and in fact she tells me this story. She says, “I’ll show you how bad we hate hippies. There’s a guy up here who owns two houses. He lives in one, the other one’s vacant. Some hippies moved into it and he came over with gas cans, poured it on his own house and burned his own house down!” (laughter) “That’s how much we hate hippies!” (laughter)

So I go back down to Sacramento and recruit about six to eight Scientologists. I said–these are all guys–and I say, “You don’t take a bath for a week, you don’t shave for a week” and at the end of that week–they did that, right? Um, (laughs) we dress ‘em up like hippies, we go up there. I got a radio, um, they have a radio. I have ‘em wait outside of town, they’re in some hippie-looking dumb-ass van, right? (laughter) You get the picture already, don’t you?

So he leaves, finally, he goes down in Sacramento, wherever he’s going, he’s gonna be gone for an hour or something. And I said, and I radio back to the hippies in the van, “Okay, come into town, he’s gone.” They come into town, they pretend like they’re friends of this guy, right? The PR guy, like they know him. “Hey, where’s Mike So-and-so? We’re his good buds!” Right? And, and, um, by God, we ARC-broke everybody in that town badly, okay? (laughs) It’s like the stuff they did, they did everything they could possibly do that was untactful, to insult people to, um, you know, they would–they would, like, go into some shop where some little old lady’s in there with her values, and they would go, “You got any stuff we could roll our weed with?” You know, kick the dog, grab the girls’ asses, you know, everything you could think of, right? (laughter)


MIKE McCLAUGHRY: Insulting people and all under the–under the, uh, making them think that they were friends with this guy. They knew about the drug program, they were gonna be part of this new drug program, and “isn’t that gonna be wonderful when we have this drug program up here because all of these people like us are gonna come, and we’re gonna be smoking dope and getting your kids to smoke dope and” (laughter) it’s gonna be a great time, right? Well, that went on for about 10-15 minutes and that town was terrorized when they left, you know? Um, and in a small town like that, I mean, anything that happens, you know, if a dog barks or something it hits the paper. I mean, this was a major catastrophe, (laughs) you know, for these people.


MIKE McCLAUGHRY: So, uh, they said, “There ain’t no way in hell we’re having a drug program up here!” (laughter)

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: And all this guy did was go down to Sacramento for an hour.

MIKE McCLAUGHRY: Well, he got back!–


MIKE McCLAUGHRY: He came back in an hour and this town was up in arms, man, they were gonna lynch this sucker, right? (laughs) So anyway, uh, we got–we let it go for a week. I recruited another agent who was a girl, I sent her up there to go sit in the bar. And they’re still talking about this, all those damn hippies, you know, “No, no, they’re not coming up here!”, right? (laughs) A week later (laughs)


MIKE McCLAUGHRY: So she says to them–which, you know, I told her to say to them–”Why don’t you guys circulate a petition up here and send it to your congressman?” Okay? “And tell ‘em you don’t want no drug program up here.” Which they did, right there on the spot, that’s a good idea! (laughs)

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: –doing their civic duty.

MIKE McCLAUGHRY: Yeah–”here it is, let’s make a petition right now!” They did it, they all signed it, they sent it to the congressman, the congressman got wind of it and, uh, in fact they phone-called and, you know, they just raised a big stink. And it killed the whole drug program. They called up Esterbrook and said, “You ain’t getting no money for no drug programs!” (laughs)


MIKE McCLAUGHRY: (laughs) That wasn’t the only operation we did on him. By the time I was done with him, the guy sold his house and got the hell out of the state to get away from me.

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: Did he know it was you?

MIKE McCLAUGHRY: Me? Oh, yeah. He didn’t know it was me; he knew Scientology did this to him but nobody listened to him.


MIKE McCLAUGHRY: You know, he said, “Those damn Scientologists!” and they thought he was nuts! See what I mean? (laughs)

LSDMIKE McCLAUGHRY: This wasn’t one that I did, but my juniors participated in, I just happened to be out of town at the time. A, uh, psychiatrist from Mexico was coming up. I don’t know the guy’s name–I think it started with an M or something like that. But he was coming up to San Francisco and he was gonna give a speech to other psychiatrists at the, uh, Hilton Hotel there, which is just right around the corner from the org. Um, they had a, some kind of convention. He was their main speaker. And the operation was–and a guy flew up from USGO who was gonna do it, his name was Gary Lawrence. He wasn’t very good at Black Ops. I mean, he wasn’t as creative as my mind, you know. These were the kinds of things he thought of; mine were a little more incisive and–you know what I mean?

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: And effective.

MIKE McCLAUGHRY: And effective as well, like Ida Camburn’s and that kind of thing, you know. But his, uh–he couldn’t think of, um, ops like that to do to people so he thought of things like LSD in the toothpaste (laughs), you know.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: He’s flamboyant.

MIKE McCLAUGHRY: Yeah (laughs). So, uh–and maybe that’s the problem today. Maybe these guys down there aren’t that bright so they end up with things like the Minutemen and stuff like that, you know, “This is what we’ll do, we’ll have a hit-and-run accident, you know, that’s a good idea” you know.

They went and got some LSD. The solution to this guy’s giving a speech was they’re gonna put LSD in his toothpaste. Um, so therefore, when he got up to give his speech, you know, he would go on a drug trip and everybody would think he was crazy. That was their plan. Um, they got into his room and, um, I got back from my mission and I heard about this and I went, “You guys are crazy!”, you know (laughs). Because it wasn’t that part, my junior was totally freaked out, you know. He was just having a moral cow (laughs) over this thing, right? And the reason was, it wasn’t so much the guy and putting tooth–you know, LSD in the guy’s toothpaste. It was the fact that the guy’s wife was with him, and she was pregnant.


MIKE McCLAUGHRY: And they put it in her toothpaste, too.




UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: Yeah, that was horrible.


UNIDENTIFIED MAN: So what happened?



UNIDENTIFIED MAN: What happened.

MIKE McCLAUGHRY: I didn’t even want to hear. I said, “I don’t even want to hear what happened! You guys are crazy!”, you know? (laughs) And my junior was in a state to be tied, you know.

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: Because of–because he had done it?

MIKE McCLAUGHRY: He participated in it to some degree. I don’t think he actually, um–I don’t know because I wasn’t there, you know. His name was Paul Elkins.


MIKE McCLAUGHRY: Uh, things I did on the Snow White program, that was to get all government files on the subject of Scientology so that PR could go in and, uh, do false report corrections on those files. Uh, the methods used to obtain files–I know one of my juniors got a suitable guise that he had made where he was able to obtain some government files legally, because a suitable guise is legal; it’s their problem if they give it to you, right? He got some Justice Department files with a suitable guise that he was doing an anti-Scientology movie. And some people did turn over their files to him. Um, however, not everybody fell for that particular suitable guise and a lot of government agencies says, uh, “Well, get out of here with your movie, we’re not–we’re not interested!” (laughs), you know, when they–so they didn’t give ‘em their files. Um, one of the people who, uh, wouldn’t turn over their files was the Yolo County District Attorney’s office, uh, the Justice Department, um, in the Attorney General’s office in Sacramento, uh, CI&I files–that’s Criminal Intelligence & Investigation, um, people like that, you know. They just wouldn’t let–give, turn over their files. So we had to resort to some other methods to obtain those files. Uh, in the case of the Yolo County DA–uh, his name was Roger Brown–at the time, the way we got into his files was, um, at night–well, actually, I, I took my right-hand man with me, uh, had him go inside the office while they were still open, go into the ladies’ bathroom and, um, hide in there. So everybody left that day at 5, as usual, locked up their doors and windows and so forth, um, but my guy was in the bathroom. So, um, after we knew they were all gone, he opened the lady–the back window to the ladies’ bathroom. I crawled through. Um, we had lock picks, we got into their locked file cabinets, got out the Scientology files and copied them all on their copier–


MIKE McCLAUGHRY: –and, uh, crawled out the window and left! (laughs) That was how we got those files. Um, in the case of the, uh, the, um, Attorney General’s office for the state of California, uh, that was–we just went in there, uh, after hours. Uh, we got in, um–I think that was another case that we, that we just hid in the building until everybody left. Uh, the janitors came in, that made it kind of an exciting moment; um, we were trying to hide from the janitors! (laughter)


MIKE McCLAUGHRY: But that was another case of lock picks, was how we got ‘em. Um, you know, got into their file cabinets and copied their files. Um, I did another one where they sent me to get the files of the World Federation for Mental Health. Um, the headquarters for the World Federation of Mental Health was in the Caribbean at the time, um, I think it was Grenada or some–one of those countries down there. Um, I was sent down there under the instructions that I was to obtain those files and do not come back without them, you know. And I thought that that meant that I would be expelled if I did come back without them. They said, “Use whatever means you have to. We don’t care if you have to break and enter, we don’t care if you have to use a sledgehammer. Uh, whatever you gotta do, bring those files back here.” Well, we always tried suitable guises first, you know. We only resorted to, um, breaking and entering if those didn’t work. I had another missionnaire with me who had a suitable guise of being a Time magazine reporter. We had built a complete identity for him that, uh, he was in fact a Time magazine reporter. So we go down there; I was the back-up and I was to do the B & E or whatever it took to get ‘em if he failed to get ‘em.


MIKE McCLAUGHRY: Breaking and entering, illegal method of entering a building (laughs). Um, so we went down to the Caribbean. Um, he used a suitable guise on, uh, whoever was there–I was not with him; I was waiting outside. Um, the place was incredibly fortified, um–guards walking around, armed guards with police dogs and that kind of a thing (laughs). And I’m going, “Yeah, and I gotta come back with these or else, right?” (laughs)

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: — what you’re supposed to do.

(still laughing)

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: Then what did you do?

MIKE McCLAUGHRY: Um, as it turned out, um, he goes in with a suitable guise. Uh, he finds out that they are just in the process of moving the headquarters from there to Canada, and that the files weren’t there. And so he told me that and I went, “Oh, wow, I’m glad they’re not here!” (laughter) I guess you don’t need in some foreign country, right? In jail. Or some dog gnawing my ankle off, you know, trying to get those files! (laughs) So, uh, so we reported that back and said they’ve moved the headquarters, uh, to Canada; the files are up there. They said, “Okay, you’re on your way to Canada”, which we did. We went to Canada, um, it was Christmastime and nobody was there. There was nobody to do a suitable guise on; everybody was on Christmas vacation. It was a hospital, a mental hospital. Um, so we tried to talk the receptionist of the building into letting us into the, um, the office where the World Federation for Mental Health headquarters was. Um, and we actually succeeded at that. The plan that we devised was that, um, we were going to leave a Christmas present for the, um, president of the Federation. Um, since he wasn’t available, uh, for us to hand-deliver it, um, we said, “Can you let us in his office? We’ll put the present on his table and then we’ll leave.” Okay, well, she agreed to that. Um, we–my partner went in and he put the present on the table. While she’s going in and letting him do that, I got a piece of tape behind me, right? And I tape the door, you know, so that when you shut the door the, the, uh, latch doesn’t close, right?


MIKE McCLAUGHRY: Watergate, right. (laughs) So that’s how we got in that office.

As it turned out in that case, the files were in route between the two; they actually weren’t there. So we took some other stuff, you know, about how they were electroshocking people or–oh, there was something about a report on Russian electric shock, blah-blah-blah. We got whatever they had, um, got back and said, uh, told ‘em, you know, that, uh, as it turned out, you know, the files were in transit, they weren’t at either location at this point in time. We didn’t get in any trouble for it, you know, I guess they’d hire another mission later to do it.

The way we got the files out of the, um, Health Department files on Scientology was, uh, we went in the building, um, after hours. Um, we had to work around the cleaning people every day in that particular situation. Um, we posed as employees of the Health Department in that situation and we’d sit at desks and pretend like we were working while they did their cleaning (laughter).

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: How did you get in?

MIKE McCLAUGHRY: Uh, at the time the security was pretty poor, we didn’t have to use a lock pick or anything. We went in when the building was open, right? They would, uh–oh, I had a, uh, an agent in there; not that I recruited her and sent her in–she was already working there. She was a Scientologist who had a job there already, and I found out about that. So it wasn’t a matter of “How do we get in?”, it was “How do we get out?” (laughs) in that case. So we would get in while they were still open. They would lock the doors, we were locked inside. But when we were done with our nightly dirty work, right, I would call her on the phone–”Come down here and unlock the door for us.” And that’s how we got out, okay? (laughs)

One night I went to, um–me and my partner were upstairs copying files. I went to go down out of the building for some reason. Um, and there was a trap, uh, you know, they had done something. I guess we had taken a break for a month or so or something, went back and get some more. And, uh, they had done something. They built a double-door system, right? To exit the building. Um, it’s one of these glass cage things, you know, where I walk through the first door and that closed behind me and locked, right? And I couldn’t get out the next door, which was also locked, so I’m locked inside this cubicle–




MIKE McCLAUGHRY: And a camera is on me and the guy is talking to me and so, “What are you doing in the building?”, right? (laughter)



UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: Think on your feet.

MIKE McCLAUGHRY: I had to totally think on my feet because I wasn’t planning for this event, right? And so I said, “Well, um, my girlfriend works here and, uh, I was sitting in the lobby over there waiting for her to get off work. I thought she was working overtime. Uh, you know, I just came to the conclusion I guess she must have left and I didn’t see her, and so now I’m just trying to get out of the damn building!” Right? And he bought it; he buzzed me out. He says, “Okay”, he buzzed me out, right?


MIKE McCLAUGHRY: So I got out but my partner is trapped up there. But fortunately we had this girl that was a Scientologist that worked there. I called her up and I said, “My partner’s stuck up there, come get him out of there!” (laughs) Which she did; she had the proper ID, she walked in. The guy that was the guard–”Here’s my ID”–lets her in the building. She escorts the guy out. And that’s how we got out that night.


MIKE McCLAUGHRY: You could have told people who were in Scientology or people in the world that what the GO was doing–let’s say the GO had a defector and one of those guys like me walked out and said, “Um, this is what we’re doing”–nobody would have believed it. Okay? Same holds true for today. You try to go tell people who are other Scientologists or people in the normal society, “This is what RTC is doing today”, and they don’t–they won’t believe it. Okay? So, um–but the GO raid happened, right? And the person who would have been saying that back at the time would have been totally vindicated that he was telling the truth by the fact that the FBI raid, walking out of there with box loads of evidence that this was the daily work of these people, okay?


MIKE McCLAUGHRY: The person who, uh, decided to, um, you know, be brave enough to come out and tell everybody what was going on in there all of a sudden becomes believable because of the box loads of evidence that the FBI walked out with. At that point it was undeniable. There was no way for those people to get out of it. They had all the evidence they needed for conviction. Um, the same situation exists today. Uh, they’ve got a few individuals that are coming out of RTC, OSA area, saying, “This is what’s going on.” I highly recommend you believe what they’re telling you. Even if they don’t have documented proof in their hand. Maybe we ought to have another raid and you’ll have plenty of documented proof. (laughs)

When that raid happened I was working in San Francisco. Uh, we got news that the FBI was raiding down there. Um, prior to that raid happening, we just wrote reports because we were autonomous, nobody could come into the Guardian’s Office and look at what we were doing, and we just wrote it the way it was, you know? It was, like, “Hi, this is Mike. Today I did 16 Black Ops, uh, spied on this, lock picked that”, you know, we just said it however it was. There was no effort to encode anything or anything; it’s just, you know, reported it straight the way it happened. Uh, so what the FBI got was, um, you know, just the most damaging evidence you could imagine.

We knew the cat was out of the bag and there was really no hope. This phone call I got was that they were raiding the files down there and I knew what that meant was that, you know. And there was a potential for a raid on every Guardian’s Office around the world at the time, and so I was told to get the heck out of there.

What we did was went out and got a–rented a U-Haul type truck, Ryder type truck, a huge one. We took all of our, um, intelligence files out, put ‘em in the back of that truck and left, you know, drove across–drove a couple states away or something like that. We operate out of the back of that thing, um, for a while.

After the raid, we got instructions to, uh, go through all of our files, one by one, every page, and just take a razor blade and hack out of there anything that was incriminating. Um–

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: Now what particularly were you told to hack out?

MIKE McCLAUGHRY: Down in L.A. I think they were told to, uh, get rid of any documents that showed that Ron was–


MIKE McCLAUGHRY: –running Scientology in any fashion. We didn’t have that problem in San Francisco so that wasn’t one of our orders. Ron didn’t issue any orders to us directly.


MIKE McCLAUGHRY: You know what I mean? Um, we got all of our orders from USGO. Even if they came from him, they came to us via USGO–


MIKE McCLAUGHRY: And they didn’t say they were his orders. Um, so, you know, we just spent a while, you know, just cutting out, you know, all this criminal stuff, and in some cases it was the whole damn file–the whole damn file is criminal, so just throw that whole file out of here! (laughter)

You know, they did their grand jury things, you know. They, they indicted the people they wanted to and–I didn’t happen to be one of them; I could have been one of them, but I, you know–the majority of us, for whatever reason–I still don’t know to this day–they let us off the hook.

Anyway, I didn’t complain about that, I was happy (laughter). And on the day the statute of limitations ran out, you know, I had a little party! (laughter)

I was out of San Francisco, but Sacramento was part of my area.


MIKE McCLAUGHRY: All of northern California, in fact probably larger than that, was my area.


MIKE McCLAUGHRY: You know, all the way to the next org, see what I’m saying?


MIKE McCLAUGHRY: So if anything happened in Sacramento, I packed my bag and I went down and handled it.

I don’t know the people there.


MIKE McCLAUGHRY: You know, I go in the org, you know, I look around at the people that are on-lines there, you know. I know what I’m there to do; I’m there to recruit a spy, you know. And I just look at people and evaluate them in my own opinion, you know. Does this person look like they are, uh, enough of a Scientologist that I could ask them to do something like that and they would do it. That’s all.

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: Did you find that it was difficult to find Scientologists that would do that?

MIKE McCLAUGHRY: No, sorry to say! (laughs) I mean, there was a lot of people I didn’t talk to.


MIKE McCLAUGHRY: Because I knew ahead of time this guy ain’t got what it takes, you know. So I guess I was good at picking them.


MIKE McCLAUGHRY: Because, um, I can’t think of any case where I asked the person to do it and they said no.



MIKE McCLAUGHRY: We would try to go and find out things overtly when it came to giving information to PR and Legal. We would try to get the information overtly, you know, like legally, so that they could use it.


MIKE McCLAUGHRY: You know what I mean? A lot of cases we, we would obtain information covertly. Uh, let’s say that–okay, here’s a specific example; in fact, it involves Vaughn. Okay? The San Francisco Better Business Bureau was in the same building as the org. They were one floor below us! (laughs) And, uh–

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: They were a threat.

MIKE McCLAUGHRY: Well, yeah, you know, they–they had a nasty little file on Scientology. You know, if anybody called them about Scientology, you know, they’d go, “Yeah, yeah, yeah”, you know, and give them some critical stuff, right? So they were an enemy. So we, you know–our task was to get their file so that PR could go in there and, uh, you know, try to dead-agent the thing, that kind of stuff, you know. Well, I got a Scientologist to be the janitor for the building. That gave us the key to the Better Business Bureau. Okay? Uh, he hands the key over to me. We went in there at night, me and a couple of other guys. We copied all their files, um, and then we walked out and, uh, we had ‘em. That’s how we got ‘em. Then, uh, PR, which was Vaughn at the time–Vaughn Young, PR in San Francisco–we turned the files over to him so we had to have some story about how did we get this. Well, how we got that is we wrote a letter, we typ–you know, we didn’t write it, we typed it. We went on their (laughs)–we went on the BBB’s own typewriters, right, because you can track typewriters.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Like fingerprints sometimes.



MIKE McCLAUGHRY: Right, so we didn’t type it on our typewriter, we typed it on their typewriter. Why not? We’re in their damn building! (laughter)

So we typed a little letter from a, uh, uh–you know,the letter said that, you know, they had some ax to grind with their boss, the BB–like it’s coming from a person that works at the BBB, right? Is typing this letter, “and by the way, I don’t think this is right, and here’s their file.” And mailed it. Well, that isn’t how we got it, but that’s what the letter said how we got it, and therefore that made that data overt. You see what I mean? It looked like it was overtly obtained; well, it wasn’t. Well, that’s common practice, I mean, that’s just standard, everyday stuff, okay? We had to take information that we had obtained covertly and illegally and make it–

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Sugar-coat it.

MIKE McCLAUGHRY: –you know, make it overt. How can we use it overtly? How can we use it legally? How can we use it in PR? Yeah, yeah. That was, you know, just part of the day’s work. Okay? So (laughs) that’s how we nailed them, okay? So then Vaughn goes and gets the press, right? The media, I’m talking about. The newspaper guys, right? The TV guys, cameras, everything, stomps into the BBB, throws the file down–”What the hell is this?” You know what I mean? (laughs) And then tears–proceeds to tear ‘em up in front of the press.

NO ONE IS SAFEMIKE McCLAUGHRY: Nobody was safe from this. There was nobody excluded from this. I don’t care if you’re a judge, you’re the President, you work for the CIA, it doesn’t matter. You’re just a private citizen, you’re a cop–God, I don’t care if you’re a cop, I’ll tear you apart! (laughs) You know what I mean? From this tech.






MIKE McCLAUGHRY: My frame of mind at the time I was doing this was that, uh–which is no question in my mind the frame of mind of the people who do it today–


MIKE McCLAUGHRY: –is that, uh, Scientology was the savior of the world, or if that’s the right word. We were gonna clear the planet, uh, we were gonna eliminate, uh, criminality, insanity and war from this planet. Those were the aims of Scientology, right? And we felt like we had the technology to do that with and that anybody that would destroy that technology, um, was, you know, um–


MIKE McCLAUGHRY: Well, we weren’t gonna let ‘em do it.


MIKE McCLAUGHRY: After the raid in ‘77, I started getting really physically ill, you know, ending up in hospitals and stuff, because I was hating what I was doing, and I wanted to get out of it in the worst way but I didn’t know how.


MIKE McCLAUGHRY: You know. Um, in 1979, two years after the raid happened, they asked me to be the security officer at the USGO. And I hated L.A., I loved San Francisco, I never wanted to leave there. They’d always been asking me to go work at USGO and I always said no because I don’t want to live in L.A. Well, I wanted to get out of doing Black Ops and, uh, breaking the law, you know, all the time like that, sufficiently bad that I took the job.


MIKE McCLAUGHRY: You know, because I didn’t have to do the spying, I didn’t have to do the Black Ops any more, I didn’t have to break the law any more. All I had to do was work inside an organization, right? And look for spies. That’s all I had to do. And I said, “Well, this is, you know, this is wonderful!” (laughs) And I gladly took the job, you know.


MIKE McCLAUGHRY: You should know about this in case anybody, uh, you know, because I’ve told some people and in case it ever comes up in a court case or anything like that, you know, then you’d have it from me. I’d be really the only one who knows about this. Um–well, there’s a couple of people, but basically while I was being security officer at USGO, um, there was a fellow, uh, who had been sent in by the Air Force. Um, he was a captain in the Air Force and he was working for, uh–what’s Air Force Intelligence called? Uh, I forget the initials for it.

He was on-lines at ASHO. Uh, he had made an application for the Guardian’s Office and he was also making an application to, um, get on-lines at AOLA and do his Clearing Course and Upper Levels.

I’m being the security officer at USGO. This guy shows up. His name was Bruce, I don’t remember his last name, but he was captain in the Air Force. Um, he was appli–he applied to get in the GO so of course I would be somebody that would have to look at him. I took a look at him and I went, “Hmm”, you know? (laughter) I didn’t know he was captain in the Air Force at the time; just looking at this guy, I went, you know.

I got a spy in on him. Um, he made friends with this guy named Bruce. They were pow-wowing around at night together and stuff like that. My spy was, of course–his cover was to pretend like he was somewhat disaffected, you know, and therefore could be trusted.

Once that was accomplished, then I pretended like I was, um, the person–although I wasn’t, right? He wanted to get on AOLA lines. I found out from my spy that this guy was stealing materials from ASHO at night and mailing them back to an Air Force base in Georgia.

He wanted to get on AOLA lines. Uh, he was applying to get on AOLA lines, and therefore I told him–now, he didn’t know who I was, right? He didn’t know where I worked or anything. Um, I told him that I was the person that worked at AOLA who approved people to get on AOLA lines. So, uh, he thought I was the guy that he had to appeal to, to get approval. Um, so I said, “Well, before we give anybody approval, you know, we ask them questions on a meter first.” And, um, I had a Sec Checker, uh, who was also a GO person, her name was Connie–maybe Rhodes or something like that–


MIKE McCLAUGHRY: Yeah. Frank and Connie Rhodes?


MIKE McCLAUGHRY: Yeah. She–you know, I liked her.


MIKE McCLAUGHRY: Yeah. She was also funny.


MIKE McCLAUGHRY: Um, (laughs) but anyway, she did the meter stuff, right, on these guys. I would sit in the room beside her and I could also ask questions if I wanted to. Um, although this isn’t Gang Bang Sec-Check type stuff, you know, I didn’t keep people up past all hours, you know, I didn’t beat ‘em up or anything. Uh, basically our technique for catching people was investigation tech, not the meter. The meter was there to fool him, not that we were relying on it in any way; we didn’t care what the meter did. Okay? (laughs) It was just the delusional tactic for him thinking that we–he believed in the meter; we did not. Okay? (laughs)


MIKE McCLAUGHRY: So that’s why it was on the meter. Um–


MIKE McCLAUGHRY: So anyway, I would go down and ask him questions every night for about a week, you know, things that I wanted to know, you know. Did he work for any government agency, blah-blah-blah, stuff like this, right? (clears throat) Uh, we led him to–he, he lied through his teeth, right, to us on every question I asked him. Um, we led him to believe that we believed his answers, right? And, and Connie let him know that, you know, the meter was agreeing with what he was saying.


MIKE McCLAUGHRY: So he felt safe every night that he left our questioning session. And he went back and he’d talk to my spy. And he would brag on all the lies he told and got away with! (laughter) “Those dumb son-of-a, you know, you know what I told ‘em tonight? That ain’t the truth.” And that’s how I got the whole story, see. (laughs)

So at the end of the, you know, four or five days of doing this, we sit down to have a, a, um, a meeting with the guy, right? We’re–he’s not on the meter any more. Uh, we had led him to believe all the way along that he was passing this thing. And he came in just happy as a clam, like a celebration, right? Like we were just gonna write him and say, “You’re on the OT Levels”, right? That’s what he thought was gonna happen.

He sits down that night and, uh, I say, “Well, Bruce, we got a problem here.” (laughs) And so I start to tell him, uh, what my spy’s been telling me. And he kind of turns white, you know, and, uh, I said, “Now what about you being in the Air Force?” So then he starts to, in the hopes of getting us to, um, approve him, he starts talking to me, right? And he starts telling me–and he knows about what’s going on at SRI. There’s no way for him to know what’s going on at SRI, you know. Um, unless he was in Intelligence, you know, because nobody in Scientology told him, that’s my point; the government had to tell him about it. So, uh, he lays it all out, and I say, “Well, who’s your Case Officer and where are they and what is your mission?” and stuff like that, and, uh, he’s over there sweating, he’s trying to get out of this. And, uh, and, you know, in the course of conversing he tells me, you know, he’s trying to give me presents.

He tells me about the SRI stuff. He goes, “You know, you guys are considered to be a national security risk because of those experiments up there at SRI.” Uh, you know, “We”–you know, “We don’t want people running around here who can exteriorize, who can spy on us”, you know. Um, “Also those tests that you did with magnetic fields, right?” A guy could influence him with his thought. Uh, he said that we were interested in that because, um–actually, you know what happened is I told him I wasn’t gonna let him on when he spilled all these beans, um, because the jig was up, you know. Um, and he goes, you know, “What we thought we could do”–and that’s when he told me “We got a hundred guys back in Georgia waiting to do this stuff as soon as I send it to ‘em.”, right, what we thought we could do is if they fired their missiles at us, right, because the magnetic field is the guidance system on a missile, if we could have our own OTs turn ‘em around and send ‘em back down the hole they came out of. See? (laughs)


MIKE McCLAUGHRY: That’s what they were looking at. So that’s where that whole story comes from; it’s from that guy.


MIKE McCLAUGHRY: As everybody now knows, you know, the GO was involved in this kind of thing. And I’d like to point out something that applies to today. Because the GO and all these things I’m talking about have not changed one bit. Just because they dismantled the GO and changed the name, uh, the hat and the personnel and what they’re doing and are supposed to be doing hasn’t changed a fraction, okay? It’s the same thing. This is our daily work, you know. This isn’t something that happened occasionally. This is what we went in to work to do every day and did every day. It was either getting spies in; breaking the law really didn’t matter, you know, and doing Black Ops on people.