Subject: Re: Fletcher Prouty
From: firstname.lastname@example.org (gerry armstrong)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 22:16:49 GMT
On 28 Mar 1999 12:56:58
-0600, wbarwell@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM (William Barwell) wrote:
>In article <01be78c5$66fb7ac0$7589a6d1@gladys>,
GS <email@example.com> wrote:
>>>William Barwell <wbarwell@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM> wrote
>>> In article <36FD8470.E62570E6@rmii.com>, Eric Fowler
>>> No, he never was. He just picked up some quick $$$ for
>>> for Scientology.
>>Len Osanic says he never wrote such a biography. Len knows what
>>has done much better than you. Yet you go on to embellish the
>>statement by implying that you "know" that he made
>>You make yourself look quite foolish here. Are your statements
>>topics as robust in their veracity and insight?
>Prouty most certainly did something for Scientology.
>Now, as to what is teh question. Hubbard long lied about
>his military service, and lied about being a highly decorated
>wounded vet, which he was not. When he was on tha Apollo, he
>incessently regaled his sea org followers with such tales.
>He even went so far as to send a letter to the Navy demanding
>of all his issued 21 medals. He sent a clever ruse of a letter
>to decieve teh clearks who were not decieved and sent only the 4
>undistiguished 'warm body' medals Hubbard could rightfully claim.
>Hubbard then went on to claim his medals were issued when he
>was doing secret work for the Navy, such medals themselves being
>secret, which is why he was not issued copies.
>Utter bullshit. As time went on, Hubbard's real Navy record started
>coming out and his claims in his mini-biographies stuck in back of
>numerous Hubbard books were exposed as the lies they were.
>After Hubbard's death, the cult started to handle this with a long
>and well planned propaganda effort to explain these things away.
>They rarely mentioned these things at all, and only would use
>such propaganda when very necessary.
>One bit of propaganda was a report prepared for Scientology by
>Prouty. Prouty wrote a report claiming Hubbard was indeed in naval
>intelligence and that his records were "sheepdipped" that
>falsely created to hide his intelligence efforts.
>This indeed prouty did write for Scientology. some years ago, when
>examining Hubbard's piss poor military record and his lies, a
>Scientology propaganda minion, Andrew Milne, a staff writer
>for "Freedom", and editor of Scientology propaganda organ
>came into ARS and tried bullshitting us, and used Prouty's
>incompetent and utterly wrong ereport, biography or however you
>to characterize it, to explain away Hubbard's lies.
>Yes. Prouty did write something for Scientology to give
>Scientology some cover for the lying and bullshitting Hubbard
>did that had passed into official cult hagiograpy.
>Patrick Jost, a critic and ex-Scientologists who posted here back
>still on rare occasion pops back up from time to time here,
>took teh effort to find Prouty and write him about this. He wanted
>know, what proof or evidence Prouty had that indeed, Hubbard ever
>actually have "shhepdipped" records, or was actually
>secret operations, the stories being extremely unlikely from many
>points of view.
>Prouty wrote back and admitted he remembered little of what he
>had written or what he had actually known about Hubbard when he
>this apologism for Scientology.
Has this Prouty letter
>The fact though, that Prouty had held his position in the White
>other security related posts was sued by Scientology to paint
>Prouty as an expert on such matters, a form of intellectual
>authoritarianism, a hand wave argument.
>As far as anybody can tell, Prouty seems to have mistaken a
>on Hubbard's records, "16", which meant he was still on
>status in 1945 when he was mustered out, as having some sort
>of status with Naval intelligence, which is wrong and incompetent.
>There are no "sheepdipped" Hubbard records. This is a
>from Prouty, cover for Hubbard's lies. Hubbard's whereabouts is
>known and there is no room for secret daring-do escapades that
>earned him any medals.
>Patrick Yost, himself with past experience in security matters,
>took the effort to request Hubbard's records, all 600 pages
>from the Navy under the FOIA statutes.
>They are exactly and excruciatingly exactly what critics have long
>known, the records of a not too competent man whose career showed
>little signs of anything near what Hubbard would later claim.
>Not only that, but later, in a lawsuit, his Naval days would be an
>and his second in command aboard the PC-815 testified in court.
>The long time period in training for command for a subhunter, which
>is what PC-815 was, leaves no time for running around earning lots
>medals in secret wars as Prouty would have us believe.
>You might want to have your buddy inquire about this report Prouty
>prepared about Hubbard and what prrof, hard evidence Prouty had
>that Hubbard was anything more than a doofus that lied a lot about
>Prouty sure wrote SOMETHING. Which the church from time to time as
>necessary, trots out, waves around a bit, and claims this is proof
>from a highly decorated and competent military and security expert
>once worked in the Kennedy Whitehouse that Hubbard was not a liar.
I recall that the
Prouty sheepdip story appeared in a couple of places in cult "
but the first place it appeared, and the "source" for later
stories, was a declaration Prouty signed for the cult which was filed
in CSC v. Armstrong (LA Superior Ct. No. 420153) following the June,
decision by Judge Breckenridge.
I suspect that the
sheepdip idea floated to the surface after the Armstrong decision;
the cult would have used Prouty as their expert at trial. But then
maybe not, since they did use the Moulton testimony re PC 815 as
I don't have the
Prouty declaration, but I believe I can track down a copy, and will
(c) Gerry Armstrong
>But Hubbard was a liar.
>Prouty has never exactly explained this, though Patrick Jost tried
>to find out just what went on.
>As one of those who reasoned with Andrew Milne when he was here
>trying to use Prouty's nonsense when he tried that, and has seen
>copies of the correspondance between Jost and Prouty, and seen
>quite a bit of Hubbard's outrageous lies and exposed more myself
>from time to time, I think the Prouty part in the propaganda
>war of Scientology needs some explaining. All Prouty ever really
>did offer was his opinion, no evidence whatsoever.
>If Prouty had otherwise, maybe your buddy can tell us what.
>Why not ask him?
>But first of all, find out what exactly Prouty did write for
>and under what circumstances.
>And yes, Prouty's name came out two years ago in a long article
>on the "Iron Mountain Report" in new Republic, he never
>understand it was a hoax even after the hoax was exposed and owned
>by the hoaxers. He is a well known Kennedy assassination fringe
>and also a fringe figure in the holocaust denial movement. He is
>exactly a well regarded researcher I would hazard to state, by
>know about such things.
>SubGenius Pope of Houston