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SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA FOR THE COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES DEPARTMENT NO. 57 HON. PAUL G. BRECKENRIDGE, JR., JUDGE
REPORTERS' DAILY TRANSCRIPT Wednesday, May 16, 1984 VOLUME 13 Pages 2031-2173, incl.
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WITNESS
EXHIBITS
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INDEX FOR VOLUME 13 (Continued) EXHIBITS
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Los Angeles, California; Wednesday, May 16, 1984; 9:47 a.m. ---0---
record reflect that counsel are present.
GERALD ARMSTRONG, resumed the stand, having been previously sworn, testified further as follows:
state your name again for the record, sir. You are still under oath.
were written by Mr. Hubbard to the FBI and the Defense Department in the mid-1950's relative to Mr. Hubbard selling brainwashing techniques to the FBI which you sent to me?
recollection is were letters from Mr. Hubbard to the FBI and to other government agencies, and I do recall letters to the Defense Department. I don't know if Mr. Hubbard in those letters stated that he was selling brainwashing to them. |
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brainwashing. At other times it appears that he had the brainwashing technology. I don't recall the way it is used in these letters. But it is on the subject of mental technology. And the term "brainwashing" or something similar is used within those letters.
letters?
which was from the 1940's through into the '50's and beyond. And they showed that Mr. Hubbard was claiming at that point to governmental personnel that the subject was a science; they showed contradictions between what he has claimed in other places publicly what Scientology is and what he was involved in and what his intentions were.
exhibit 6C?
went through quickly yesterday which called for -- which recited in Mr. Hubbard's handwriting that among other things, he should find the unsavory part of a person's past and the criminal activities of a person's past and pursue for harassment and items of that nature, when you sent those to me did you correlate the statements of Mr. Hubbard in those documents to statements that he had made in what has been marked exhibits 500 4D through 4G? |
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that we have called at various times the affirmations or the admissions, and there are some parts of those documents which were very significant to me, having to do with --
I'm going to do this on a very step-by-step basis, and then I will lay the foundation, and then I will inform the court of just several lines in the documents that correlate to these documents which the witness found extremely significant.
in exhibit 4D through 4G that correlated to statements he had made in the 1960's pertaining to attacks on enemies and the Fair Game Doctrine?
4G; is that correct?
when you found the documents in the 1960's in Mr. Hubbard's handwriting relative to attacking enemies?
referring to now? Is this something in the 6 series?
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about finding the criminal part or past of a particular individual; is that correct?
from her pursuant to Scientology policy, and Mr. Hubbard had ordered legal officer Branch 5 to investigate her past and psychiatrists' past and find the criminal part -- criminal past of these people.
Game Doctrine that has been marked as an exhibit to lie, sue, cheat, and destroy enemies?
handwriting, did you find similar statements about finding the unsavory side of their past with reference to enemies?
refers to finding the unsavory side of their past?
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find similar statements in Mr. Hubbard's handwriting with regard to 6H?
that? |
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Mr. Armstrong?
document as a whole deal with attacking a particular individual by a variety of means?
use of the courts. The final paragraph reads:
information about a person's past?
refers to information which he wishes to make public about these people and there are allegations if you want me to read that.
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took Mr. Armstrong approximately 10 minutes and that he was reading excerptions.
he did read. He left portions out. He read excerpts.
the whole document go into evidence.
go on to the next question.
6J starting under paragraph eight, do you recognize that to be in the handwriting of L. Ron Hubbard?
Mr. Hubbard to the organization to engage in the type of activity that you just read; namely, finding criminal past and activity of people to expose them?
on handling this particular problem of -- it is an order to Mary Sue, and he is hiring a Pinkerton detective and one of the points is:
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where he states that:
document 500 6I, 6K, 6L, 6M, which says "don't defend; attack," 6N, 6O, relating to modifications of Fair Game, 6P --
ruled yesterday that 6O was privileged. Mr. Flynn conveniently -- |
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is not in hope of gain. We must attack"; 6Q and 6R, and without going through the specific references in each and 6S dated October 8, 1961 relating to Michael Plynn and a psychiatrist named Dr. John Clark.
aware of the existence of the Fair Game Doctrine?
of the organization to cull PC files, auditing files to collect information from people such as yourself?
talking about?
time that you were involved in the organization, Mr. Armstrong, did you understand that it was a regular practice to cull auditing files and gain information on people such as yourself?
1975.
Beach and I saw a great deal of correspondence, both Telex and written correspondence, which concerned people who were viewed as enemies or potential threats in the correspondence back and forth contained information taken from their PC files. |
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or preclear is asked questions by another person, and auditor, while the pre-clear holds the electrodes of an electronic mechanism which is basically a lie detector which measures galvanic skin response and other reactions. And the person, the PC, answers the auditors questions. And the questions can concern any part of his life, his history, his family, his thoughts, virtually every aspect, every person he has ever known, any familial connections, anyone of any significance in his life; any incident in his life. And all of this is written down in longhand in note form by the auditor complete with time, place, form, and event. And under some circumstances, when a Sec Check is being done, a lot of details are gathered so that the exact time, who knew about it, who was there, who should have known about it, any crimes, anything for which the person can be blackmailed, all of this stuff is recorded and those form the PC files, the auditing reports.
a routine practice and a policy to cull those PC files by -- cull the auditing files by the Guardian's office and collect that information to be used against the people who had been audited?
Guardian's office in late 1975.
And we were continually ordered to cull individuals' PC files, |
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people who either asked to leave or were viewed as a potential threat for whatever reason.
culled for any crimes, for anything embarrassing, anything for which they could be blackmailed; a list of such crimes or incidents was typed up into a statement which the person had to sign before he could leave.
folders.
basis as ordered by the Guardian's office.
And it wasn't until after leaving the organization that I saw a written order concerning that policy.
And I participated in it; was ordered to participate in it for several years prior to that.
without routing out; is that correct, knowing that you would be forced to participate in that?
Hubbard the policy that you saw later with regard to culling PC files?
it when he was in the Church of Scientology of California, what relevance does it have to anything that has to do with this case? |
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testimony. I don't know what this is. It is two pages of paper, printing.
saw there.
Mr. Flynn.
Honor?
policy it states, does it not, to --
This witness, after he leaves the organization, apparently gets this from Mr. Flynn who has passed it to Mr. Litt as well.
that policy is consistent with the testimony you have just provided to the court?
folders, PC files. |
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Mr. Hubbard and became aware of Mr. Hubbard's instructing the organization to find a criminal past among other things, and when you were aware in 1980-81 of the practice of culling auditing files by the organization to use as you testified for purposes of blackmail, did you correlate that to statements made by Mr. Hubbard in exhibit 4D through 4G, 500 4d through 500 4G?
it to?
et cetera or is this a question about 6?
to use information about a person's past was used to control the person and to attack them mercilessly?
4G?
know.
of PC folders because that came later, but I did find |
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information on the --- Mr. Hubbard's intention to be merciless toward people who countered him and his statement that he had the right to be merciless.
"men are my slaves"?
the document out, what exhibit you have reference to. Let counsel see it and we will have a preliminary inquiry on whether --
to this document.
that, Mr. Armstrong, was it your understanding from 1975 onward that Mr. Hubbard used information from PC files to control members of the organization?
of Mr. Hubbard; did you see that on a regular basis?
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I think we are going to have to look at your copy. |
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you can refer to the Court's exhibit.
to look at this part while they are at it.
Honor, and then I would like to read the one sentence starting with "Men" and the other sentence starting with "You can be. . ."
to ask?
organization you knew that a Suppressive Person Declare had been issued on you; is that correct?
culling PC files?
organization had culled your auditing files?
SP Declare was issued on you, what was your state of mind with regard to whether or not the organization would use those, PC files against you?
it was very likely. |
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every incident that you have been involved in in your life set forth in those PC files?
1981 did you begin to have a developing awareness that you had been the slave of L. Ron Hubbard while you were working for $4 a week, 100 hours a week?
is ridiculous and what is not.
while he was in the church. If he regrets it now, he is entitled to do so. But are we going to have in testimony that he was a slave while he was in the church?
that Mr. Armstrong relied on extensive representations of Mr. Hubbard. Whether he was voluntarily in the church goes to whether he was defrauded and believed those representations to be true and later found them to be false.
of misrepresentation.
issue that we have said all along which is really at the heart |
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of this theory.
physicist?
tangents and get me away from the point we are trying to resolve.
conclusionary; it is rather leading as well.
you have in connection with your working for L. Ron Hubbard between 1980 and 19817
asked and answered before about a half dozen times. He thought he was working for L. Ron Hubbard.
to develop at this time, having in mind his previous question.
exhibit 4D through 4G --
Your Honor.
outweighs any relevance. He has been through all of this before.
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4D and 4E?
your mind about your status in the church or in your relationship with Hr. Hubbard?
was a continuing and a growing awareness that I had been used and that I had continued to be used and that I had through representations and various physical and mental mechanisms, had been virtually enslaved by the man.
Mr. Hubbard's intentions which he set forth in his writing in 1946 as set forth in exhibit 4D and 4E?
impossible for a reasonable person to draw any conclusions from those documents about this issue and what intentions are expressed.
a conclusion about what it means; so whatever conclusions Mr. Armstrong drew have to have been from other things. And under Section 352, we would ask that testimony of this be excluded. It is not reasonable. It is -- you can't reasonably construe that statement to mean anything.
not accountable for anything that is said here."
on this? |
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And it is just an effort to get into what is extremely private and it should not be allowed. And it is not particularly germane to this case.
this constant effort to sort of push and push here and there to try to get portions of this document in. |
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permitted and can be permitted to testify as to what his state of mind was. What his belief is and whether or not it is reasonable, that is for the court to conclude at a later date. If these had some bearing upon his state and mind and why he did what he did, it seems to me it is relevant and admissible. So, I will overrule the objection.
this?
in later testimony to develop the context or something to affect it, you may do so.
to before you do it.
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be merciless whenever your will is crossed and you have the right to be merciless"; is that correct, Mr. Armstrong?
that she was mentally raped by your having possession of the documents under seal?
She was mentally raped because he sent them to Mr. Flynn, Your Honor.
is my recollection, but we have the actual words here. Let's go on. That is just a point of reference.
stand today and prior to your cross-examination, you are aware that all of your PC files are in the possession of the plaintiff in this action; is that correct?
you fearful of that fact?
session, are there any representations made whether or not anything he says is in confidence or is he under an understanding that everything he says is going to be available for later use?
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in Scientology, I asked on that specific point and there are representations made within Scientology literature and by Mr. Hubbard that the information is kept confidential.
that I learned that, in fact, it was available for use by the Intelligence Bureau of the organization, and the fact that it was used, could be used however they wanted.
of confidence?
is set forth in several publications, including the Auditors Code; is that correct?
"Estimate in Reader's Digest" come into your hands?
by Vaughn Young sometime in the fall of 1981.
organization was, as you put it, acting as an intelligence agency in collecting hundreds of files on people including me? |
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Michael Flynn, Paulette Cooper, Reader's Digest, Rockefeller, L., Margaret Singer, Nan McLean, Eugene Methvin, and John Clark, was there an indication that 30 feet of information had been gone through and 200 files to make up a set of index files?
the information contained in exhibit 6S?
possession or before he left the church or at any time in Mr. Flynn's office? What is the reference, Your Honor?
you attempt to try to check the accuracy of exhibit 6S?
I provided it to Mr. Garrison with -- I had understood that it was accurate at that tine, that everything that was laid out here was exactly -- not that the substance o£ the reports were accurate because I had by that time begun to perceive that, in fact, there were no enemies who sere out to get Scientology, that that was a created mechanism by which to keep the troups in line. |
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amount of data collection and amount of volume of the files which were examined in order to come up with this estimate were accurate.
were working for Mr. Garrison, did you make any efforts to ascertain the accuracy of the contents of the exhibit 6S?
accuracy of some of the allegations in here, the connections to the Rockefellers and to John Clark.
organization had been collecting files on people such as myself?
acted as a confirmation so much.
of. But it was a -- it was just another fact which was added to the already growing awareness of these activities.
the ship and in Daytona. So I was already drilled in intelligence acitivities and on data collection, so forth.
organization, Mr. Armstrong, with regard to how the intelligence agency of the church collected information on people such as myself?
or overt in the data collection.
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through old newspapers or public reports or all the -- in your case, going through all the files for any trial which you had been involved in; examining the backgrounds of your clients, of your family. This would be involved with an overt data collection.
would be getting someone in close to you, putting a plant in your office; putting a plant in the office of someone connected to you.
as I understand it?
was your state of mind; is that correct, Mr. Armstrong, before you left the organization with regard to how information is collected by the church?
methods of data collection, the specifics of how that would be done. As an intelligence personnel, this is how I would go about collecting information on you and which I knew the organization, if they were collecting information on you, would go about doing it.
up in newspapers, collecting information?
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I have heard of a righteous burglary.
the means the organization used, Mr. Armstrong?
the question, rather than understanding?
is a state of mind; belief is a state of mind; knowledge is a state of mind. |
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and within covert activities such as burglary, theft, plants, blackmail.
to be an ongoing practice of the organization throughout the period of time that you were involved?
time in probably 1980. I became very aware of the extent of the covert intelligence activities.
or sending to me all of the documents that you sent to me; namely, the organization's collection and use of information against enemies?
be an enemy; is that correct?
perceived me to be an enemy.
probation, I believe in 1950 or 1951 in San Luis Obispo, I believe, although I am not sure. I can't see there.
been apparently convicted of a crime or a misdemeanor or something and had been put on probation in 1950.
you send me those collection of pictures with a dispatch from a Terry Milner? |
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That is the head of the intelligence bureau in the United States, and it was addressed via Mary Sue to Ken Urquhart was the LRH personal communicator on board the ship at that point. It is dated 25 September, 1973, and it concerns the photos which are in this envelope here and indicated that the -- it states that the photos -- it says, "Actually most of it belonged to Nibs."
the - that Nibs or L. Ron Hubbard, Jr. was viewed as an enemy by the organization, and there was a possibility from this dispatch that these photos had been stolen from Nibs. Hence I sent it to you.
was a conflicting claim between the organization as to whether Nibs had given the photos voluntarily or as to whether they had been stolen and whether anybody had been requested to sign a particular document with respect to them?
Your Honor.
dispute over these photographs, Mr. Armstrong?
However, in connection with -- or a conversation with Nibs, he said --
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something like that.
he sent these things. It was done well before a month ago.
goes to something else, but I don't know if it is terribly relevant.
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that counsel are present; the witness has retaken the stand.
are still under oath.
completing the direct examination.
6Y, did you send those to me to assist in the defense of the claims that the organization vas making against you?
office that?
stationery, one from U.S. Naval Hospital and another, a letter, apparently, on Explorer Club stationery and signed by a Robert Lees. And it is sort of a letter of recommendation for Mr. Hubbard.
and signed it for Mr. Lees. |
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across in the course of this biography research a number of such documents which appear that Mr. Hubbard had written on someone else's letterhead, letters for himself or had filled in for someone else, and in one case a fitness report and in another case a statement of the medals that he had earned during the war, and that was just to me a small evidence of the type of fraud is which Mr. Hubbard engaged.
referred in your last answer a document involving a Commander Thompson which is not under seal?
under seal? Is that the question?
that evidenced Mr. Hubbard's signing someone else's name as evidence of the fraudulent activity of Mr. Hubbard not under seal?
something similar around the time of the end of the war, |
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and there is a signature on it by a Commander Thompson, and the signature, my recollection is, is done in a broad blue pencil crayon or a blue marker of some sort, not a felt marker but a crayon marker, and I had other materials from that period in Mr. Hubbard's writing which were also done with this same marker.
You can say it is a similar marker.
representations about Mr. Hubbard's Naval background which was totally contrary to every other document you found in his Naval records?
medals which are listed on this particular document, and it was a different number of medals. He was awarded four medals during the war. He has claimed to Scientologists two numbers, one being 28 medals and palms; one being 21 medals and palms, and this was a figure in between those amounts, in between 4 and 21, and gay recollection is that it also included a Purple Heart.
color photograph of the medals which Mr. Hubbard claimed he had been awarded during the war.
written this document?
why did you send my office that document? |
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dispatch from LRH entitled "Saint Hill and OT Activities, Expenses," this document has to do with the original -- the origins of the Sea organization, payment of Sea organization personnel then called the Sea Project and Mr. Hubbard's paying these people at this time.
you send me these materials to defend yourself, Mr. Armstrong?
by Mr. Hubbard to be signed by a Tom Esterbrook?
Hubbard?
background, his claims about his background?
7J?
Company, OTS and this contains Mr. Hubbard's handwriting in places and his initials. And it is signed by him. And it refers to transfer of monies from HEC, OTS, LRH, CFS.
part of your defense that L. Ron Hubbard had been receiving monies from the Church of Scientology? |
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not been brought up, but are presently found under seal which have not been marked as exhibits in the 500 series, why did you send me those documents?
whatever I was able to obtain from Hr. Garrison which he, for the most part, had duplicate copies of for the biography project, the mass of them together show a complete picture or, at least, a more complete picture than the exhibits which we took out of that mass of documents. All of them add to the overall picture regarding Mr. Hubbard and regarding his use of the organization, his control of the organization; the misrepresentations of his academic credentials and military career and so on.
picture of those facts.
and you received the SP Declare, were you aware of the policy of L. Ron Hubbard regarding the use of the law set forth in the Level Zero Check Sheet?
had used the law and ordered the organization to use the law.
attack individuals, in order for the purpose of harassment. So if that is what you mean, I was aware of that fact. Q And was it your belief at the time that you |
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retained me, Mr. Armstrong, that you were going to be attacked through the law by Mr. Hubbard's organization?
to the scope of the litigation that Mr. Hubbard and his organization could subject you to?
knew they could bring incredible weight both legally and extra-legally against me.
documents as you felt you could obtain that you could use to defend yourself?
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April 22, 1982 of:
organization was carrying out what is called inside a "Black Propaganda Campaign" in order to discredit me, in order to discredit the statements which I made about Mr. Hubbard, about the organization. That was the significance that that had.
out within the Scientology network and connected organizations internally, and that the purpose was to create an atmosphere into which it then became acceptable for further acts by the organization or by the intelligence operatives or as it turned out by private investigators against me.
the policy regarding Black Propanda written and copy- righted by Mr. Hubbard set forth in what has been referred to as the Green Books?
Mr. Armstrong? |
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policy, mostly written by Mr. Hubbard, having to do with Scientology organization policy. They are statements of policy. They are policy letters which are supposed to govern Scientology organizations.
exhibit in order, Your Honor?
of items. It is collectively, I suppose.
the basic policy as set forth in exhibit triple B with regard to Black Propaganda to be, Mr. Armstrong?
from hidden sources designed to discredit and destroy the reputation of the person who was being lied about.
to altered documents and making false statements about Mr. Hubbard, did you believe that to be part of the policy on Black Propaganda?
to the necessity of procuring documents from Mr. Garrison to defend yourself against Black Propaganda?
Person Declare dated April 22, 1982 of about your espousing |
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the views of Timothy Leary?
the SP Declare, Mr. Armstrong?
Propaganda?
to why that charge was made in the SP Declare?
that is that it came out of whole cloth, that it was part of the Black PR campaign. It was to set up an atmosphere inside the organization so that people inside the organization did not believe me but felt that I had freaked out on LSD or that I had gone off the deep end.
by Laurel just a week or so prior to leaving that she knew of operations in which LSD was put in people's toothpaste so there was another threat I felt from that quarter, and the other possibility was the planting of drugs on me.
you seen a declaration of an Ann Rosenbloom?
Messenger's org for Mr. Hubbard?
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in one of her drinks by a Joseph Lisa?
the specifics of it. I had heard that within the organization.
significance to a Scientologist?
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at the top of the organization working directly with Mr. Hubbard, it is viewed that drugs are not to be used.
be audited within a certain time of having even used aspirin.
drugs of any description, certainty, are frowned upon.
with respect to the claim that you were associated with Timothy Leary?
me up to LSD and Timothy Leary.
Mr. Hubbard at La Quinta and at Gilman Hot Springs did you have the opportunity to observe his behavior?
in La Quinta and out in the desert and at various locations, I was able to observe him for long periods of time on a daily basis several hours a day. And my observation was that his behavior was highly irrational.
raged at people. He swore a great deal. His language was atrocious.
he raged at the slightest little thing on the movie set. |
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by messengers. And they acted the same way, yelling at people on the set, yelling at the various units for not performing their functions correctly. It was highly irrational.
project force for minor infractions?
that Mr. Garrison had reached a settlement with Mr. Hubbard's representatives?
you make to the plaintiff and the intervenor with regard to returning documents that are under seal?
to go into settlement matters in this case. But I assume that is what is happening now?
Mr. Peterson with regard to making the demand for the return of the documents.
you make for the return of the documents under seal, Mr. Armstrong? |
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and my understanding that he relayed to Mr. Litt at that time was that we would deliver to Mr. Hubbard or his agents any of the materials which would not be needed for the defense of this case or the cross-complaint.
which we deemed were necessary for evidence would be provided to us and that the originals could be delivered to Mr. Hubbard.
my reasoning at the time was that original documents would be necessary in order to assist in the authentication of all of these materials.
and I knew of his letter from 1953 or 1977 to Mr. Garrison which ultimately made its way to Mr. Garrison in which he claimed that his records had been stolen in 1953 and that the government had been putting forged or altered documents into his dossier.
to leaving.
organization person then in charge of selling Mr. Hubbard's fiction work, "Man, The Endangered Species," which later was renamed "Battle Field Earth," he at that time had or had seen, but in any case, had in his hands at one time just prior to that, somewhere around December, 1981 -- |
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unless it is for again --
do with the originals.
had heard that there was some questions regarding statements he had made about his past, and he stated, and this was relayed to me by Mr. Haber that he wanted everyone to know that this dispatch had gone from Mr. Hubbard to David Miscavige.
everything Mr. Hubbard had said about himself and everything that the PR's had said about him was, in fact, true, and I had a great deal of concern that the organization might come out and say that all these documents are forgeries because if they were copies, I certainly was not going to have their assistance in the authentication of these documents. This is a claim which has been made before and I was concerned about it.
them all at expense which I couldn't afford, and because I felt that we would run into an authentication problem or perhaps that these were all FBI created documents, I elected to send you originals.
you were accused of alteration of documents; is that correct? |
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standing, Mr. Armstrong, throughout this litigation that the Church of Scientology has had copies of all documents under seal or Mr. Hubbard's representatives?
virtually/all of it, copies in one form or another.
which are herein because of the place from which they had come, because of the subject matter, because of the organization's interest in these things, and because of the -- those are areas in which documentation would have been collected by B-1 in order to handle the questions which continually come up in these areas.
the source of originals from two areas in which you said you didn't believe that there were copies left in those two sources; you recall that testimony?
archives?
your belief at the time that there were copies in other areas other than the two that you were questioned about?
majority of the originals which are under seal there are copies, either copies of the letters, copies of the documents |
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under seal or within the organization, either at GOWW, GOUS, my archives, Controller archives. Some of them were went to Mr. Garrison. So, my belief is that the vast majority of them, I have no way of confirming that, but knowing the contents and knowing the location from which they came, that is my belief.
for his state of mind as to why he sent originals because if it is introduced for fact, it is not fact and his opinion without fact as to whether there are things in the archives to establish that there are such things in the archives is improper because there is no foundation for that.
to go check the archives, and I will overrule your objection. He can give his opinion on that subject. The weight to be given to it is something else again.
it is necessary to have possession of copies of the documents that are under seal for purposes of prosecuting your cross-complaint?
did you have conversations with Laurel Sullivan regarding inurement to Mr. Hubbard in connection with your services as an employee of Mr. Hubbard's?
into MCCS, Your Honor. |
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he answers the question and goes into attorney-client privileged areas. Apparently from the -- |
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you can speak.
whether or not anything about "inurement," was placed upon consultation with attorneys concerning various tax matters.
Miss Sullivan said was as a result of consultation with attorneys and plans that were being developed in relationship thereto.
that preliminary inquiry before this simple question is asked under these circumstances.
Mr. Flynn was going to put Miss Sullivan on the stand and then he would recall him in respect to those items.
Your Honor, and his understanding with regard to during the biography project he had to be an employee of Mr. Hubbard because if he wasn't an employee of Mr. Hubbard, it would have been inurement to Mr. Hubbard if he was an employee of the church and a violation of the Internal Revenue laws.
might be wrong and some lawyer whose advice may have been followed or may not have been followed, if that is --
on the subject. |
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from any conversations with any lawyers, Mr, Armstrong, with regard to who you worked for and why when you were doing the biography project?
subject which was discussed between Laurel and myself a great number of times. And in those conversations, it -- what was discussed and the conclusion was reached was that because I was involved in a project directly working for Mr. Hubbard for which he would make a great deal of money, I had to be paid by Mr. Hubbard and could not be a part of the organization; otherwise, the inurement charge would follow.
the one proviso we had previously discussed about Laurel Sullivan.
put into evidence that is the book that Mr. Armstrong mentioned, "The Science of Survival" that is dedicated to the daughter of L. Ron Hubbard, Alexis Valerie. I don't have the book at the present time. I am supposed to receive it at 1:30.
of time going to cross-examine, but on different subject matters.
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CROSS-EXAMINATION
December 12, 1981, aside from archives materials, what materials did you take with you?
understanding that the defense or the plaintiff and the intervenor, having in their case read excerpted portions of Mr. Armstrong's deposition, are precluded from re-examining in areas that constitute the areas which have been read into the record from excerpted portions of the deposition.
in the excerpted portions of the deposition.
to have a lot of repetitive testimony. But on the other hand, I don't know if there is anything that precludes the cross- examination unless it is cumulative or unnecessarily repetitive.
area which is repetitive to what has already been read as the record subsequently shows?
no way, of recalling at this point what has been read and what hasn't.
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left --
but up until that day; in other words, through December 12 what material other than archives material had you taken from church files or copies thereof?
on objecting.
Hubbard files.
L. Ron Hubbard files, I won't object. But the statement of Mr. Wertheimer in his letter that all of these documents are in the ownership and possession of L. Ron Hubbard, we believe is pretty conclusive evidence that that was the case at the time.
taking the position that they were the bailee of these particular documents. And the question is being asked in that context. So rather than get into any discussion over who was the owner, we'll take it in that context.
addition to archives documents which I viewed were my documents were copies of any financial transactions or, at least, |
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whatever I had from as long as I had been involved or as long as I had been collecting those records.
accounting which I had done for all the projects going back, I believe, as far back as the ship, but perhaps not that far back.
I have provided to Mr. Garrison, I had transparencies of slides which I took when I left the organization.
the day following when I was driving out and let her know that I had these and why I had them; that I still had some work to do with them.
personal letters.
contents, but can you elaborate on what you are referring to when you are referring to personal letters?
all of my correspondence with my family. It was just a file. There were probably two or three, various family members involved. And I took all of that stuff out.
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accounting.
Barbara DeCelle at the -- the day that I left and copies of the checks which I sent turning in the balance of any funds which I had for the biography project.
Jim Isaacson. And I retained copies of that correspondence and the checks.
or other materials that are not archives documents themselves?
documents? Just to make sure we have our terms straight, I mean documents that are being collected for archives as opposed to any correspondence that might have related to them, but are not archives materials themselves.
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materials not archive documents relating to your activities in connection with the archives project or related matters over the previous two years?
There were copies of financial records.
I have told you.
that you took when you left, aside from archive documents?
my personal materials, not my clothes?
originally did?
want to make sure that I have a full answer to that.
other than archival materials that I took during the period when I was leaving the organization.
since -- well, let me take starting with the period 1980, have you written any letters other than within Scientology channels -- can I use that phrase? Do you know what I mean/when I use that phrase? |
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will get it cleared up.
starting with the period 1980, did you write any letters or have any correspondence with anyone on the subject of Scientology and your attitude toward Scientology, and I will take that for 1980 through 1982.
and that was a letter to a man by the name of Perry Chapdelaine who was an early Dianeticist and he lived somewhere in Tennessee. I don't recall the city, somewhere near Nashville, I believe, and I wrote to him on some of my feelings at that point about Scientology or about Scientology practices.
Dick Sullivan. I don't recall if there was anyone else during that period specifically on Scientology. It is possible, but that is what comes to mind.
family members on that topic?
which it would have been mentioned. I don't know, not a great deal.
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to Perry Chapdelaine, Laurel Sullivan and Dick Sullivan?
letters to Perry Chapdeline in the period of 1980, '81, at least one which I mentioned some of my feelings about some of the Scientology practices. That would have been left in the organization in the archive area when I left. Correspondence with Laurel or Dick Sullivan, I don't have those.
direct testimony that you at some point began keeping a record, and I wasn't sure how frequent this record was, of your experiences, I guess it was with what you called harassment; am I right about that?
August, mid-August 1982.
go?
perhaps up to September 20, September 22. That would be the date on which I last perceived one of the private investigators tailing or shadowing me.
while matters were fresh in your mind what had transpired on a particular day or a particular occasion? |
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at that time the object of an incredible campaign. And I wanted to document the facts.
on a daily basis with respect to the subject of Scientology or what you felt was related to that topic?
investigators at that time, not necessarily my thoughts regarding Scientology, but this is -- it is a fairly detailed description on a daily basis of what I viewed incidents of harassment.
I'll come back to -- from the time that you left Scientology on December 12, have you kept on records or notes other than this record of private investigators, journals or diaries in which the topic of Scientology or your attitudes towards Scientology is mentioned?
spring of 1962 I wrote what was a chronology which brought me up to my beginning in Scientology through 19 -- probably 1974. I was still on the ship. So I had that. I think it amounted to maybe 20 or 30 pages typewritten. Other than that, other than writings which are not a documentation of any facts, there is nothing.
introspective notes, sort of trying to determine what happened and what happened to me mentally through those years.
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but those are the only other notes or records. And they are not a documentation of events that were going on on that day, but rather a mental documentation. Those are the only things that I have or did.
collected in a particular -- are they kept together in a file, or do you maintain them?
big mass and not all of they refer to Scientology. But there are references to Scientology and references to Mr. Hubbard. But they are just my personal notes. And, yes, I do maintain them.
they take up, I guess, about six inches in depth.
the time you left?
harassment that went on -- that was a pretty intense period. And it just began right after that.
or for possible publication that referred to either directly or sort of by the use of different names, but in reality was a reference to your experience in Scientology?
counsel, Your Honor?
with counsel. THE WITNESS: There was a thing which I wrote, I guess, |
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in 1982. And it would have been in May of 1982. And I never completed it. It was -- it dealt mainly with the paranoia that I was going through at that time and my behavior at that time.
with a knife and peering out of the windows and that sort of thing. And the terror that was in my mind at that time. And I gave -- I'm sorry -- |
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produced for us the following materials:
understand, as we have said before, that on the matters that we are dealing with here this case was not prepared on that basis, so there are some materials that might otherwise have been obtained that weren't obtained, but given the nature of Mr. Armstrong's testimony, I think it is reasonable that we obtain it at this point.
Mr. Armstrong of his experiences with the private investigators.
and other things that he's held in Scientology. I think he said from joining until 1974.
with us that the court review first to pull out, only the portions that are relevant because I am not interested in having private materials of Mr. Armstrong on other subjects, but these notes that he's written that reflect his attitudes and feelings about Scientology or Mr. Hubbard.
of this draft that he wrote in May of 1982 which dealt with his mental state at that time and I guess sort of a fictional work. I am not completely clear. |
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no problem producing any of it with the one caveat that I'd like to examine it, and barring any attorney-client privilege -- I know that Mr. Armstrong sent me a recitation of the chronology of his history in Scientology some time during the summer of 1982. I am not sure whether that is the second or mot, but my reaction is we have no problem.
until 1:30.
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Los Angeles, California; Wednesday, May 16, 1984; 1:30 p.m. ---0---
that counsel; the witness has retaken the stand. State your name again for the record, sir. You are still under oath.
GERALD ARMSTRONG, resumed the stand, having been previously sworn, testified further as follows:
CROSS-EXAMINATION (Resumed)
were talking about the variety of materials that you might have in your possession. Let me just clear up one thing. If I understand your testimony correctly, when you left your post, other than archives materials that you gave to Omar Garrison, you didn't have copies of any file materials pertaining to the archives projects activities; is that correct, internal correspondence, anything like that?
there have been a series of exhibits that have been marked in this case that so far as I can determine were not produced |
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in discovery by the church. And I'm interested in knowing where some of those materials -- how they came into your possession; for instance, there is exhibit DD, the Dive Bomber dispatch; where is that from?
during the beginning of my work on the biography project. And that was in February, 1980.
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and was marked as an exhibit under seal.
me check.
as an exhibit by you, and I believe and you can correct me if I am wrong, that they are not under seal. For instance, there is exhibit GG, which is a letter to Alan Wertheimer from Larry Brennan of January 2, 1981; exhibit FF -- I may have the date wrong on that -- exhibit FF is a letter from Alan Wertheimer to Larry Brennan of December 2, 1981; exhibit EE is a letter from Alan Wertheimer to Larry Brennan of November 17, 1980. Where did those come from?
while working on the biography project. Subsequently I gave them to Omar Garrison, and a year or many months later I obtained them from Mr. Garrison after this lawsuit began.
had been ordered to turn over all materials in the archives you then went and obtained materials from Mr. Garrison |
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that you had provided to him in your capacity as archivist; is that right?
to a declaration which was filed.
September 1982.
declaration to be filed in September 1982; is that correct?
order required you to return all the archives materials had been entered; is that correct, August 24th? A I believe all the archives materials had been, but I think that that is correct.
you went and obtained from Mr. Garrison additional materials that had been provided to him in your capacity as archivist; is that correct?
contract between Mr. Garrison and PUBS DK?
that point or not. I believe my recollection is here that I had already sent that or shown it to Mr, Flynn, but it is also possible that at that time I obtained it from Mr. Garrison. |
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addressed to C -- Controller of 15 October, 1980; is that something you had given Mr. Garrison?
to the Controller.
was produced at a deposition. That is my recollection, but it could be -- I really don't know on that one. |
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it at a deposition or used it in some way in connection with this lawsuit.
to Gale, where did you get that from?
in your capacity as an archivist?
that from him also?
but in any case, I got it from him. I had given him that thing because we had a great deal of concern at that point about Jocelyn's or my being locked up. And I gave it to him, a copy of it.
locate it. And he did. And he gave it to me.
of November 25th, 1981, did you get that from Mr. Garrison also?
at which point I had to obtain documents relating directly to that subject.
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of the answer.
November 18, 1981, which is a communication from Vaughn Young concerning the biography debug, did you get that from Mr. Garrison?
later.
you asked him to give you documents that you had given to him while you were in the archives post?
of February 3rd, 1980, did you get a copy of that from Mr. Garrison at some point?
doesn't have a name on it. It just says to blank. And from Senior PPRO Research.
trial.
by some other means from Mr. Garrison as well?
produced by the church, at some point did you go to |
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Mr. Garrison and get a copy of it prior to that?
copy. I don't -- I -- I am a bit confused.
documents?
have a Xerox machine, there can be an endless number of documents.
is when it was produced by you in this trial. That is the first time since l980 or '81.
Vaughn to Sue of November 28, 1981, is that another document that you went to Mr. Garrison to obtain?
you were archivist?
document from Vaughn Young, did you obtain that from Mr. Garrison as well?
draft of a document, did you get that from Mr. Garrison as well?
detail?
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an issue; formerly presumably somebody's draft. And it says "Project biography debug personnel Vaughn Young, IC."
him?
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been discussing here were not materials addressed to Mr. Garrison; is that correct?
because you thought he should be aware of them given the fact that he was working on a biography pursuant to the contract with PUBS DK?
is the underlying reason.
to renegotiate his contract. We had become aware of the fraudulent basis for the contract. Some of the clauses which he had agreed to he was enticed into by fraudulent representations.
all of that as a conclusion.
in your capacity as an archivist, you gave it to him for purposes of his renegotiating the contract with PUBS DK; is that correct?
being done.
things being done that weren't right; is that correct?
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which were not right.
that there were certain internal church material that he should see; is that correct?
that?
Laurel knew about the Wertheimer letters, but the others I don't believe I checked with anyone.
that were produced or used by you. Did you get those from Mr. Garrison, also?
Your Honor?
I am not absolutely positive on that -- no, no.
such as "Successes in Scientology," "PRO"?
Biography of L, Ron Hubbard" and at the top it says |
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"Originally Printed Circa 1960."
which is identical to -- that is a sealed document which is a copy which is identical to exhibit S, I believe.
the question. I as trying to get some things straight.
have any cross reference to what the exhibit is, but let's go ahead.
that you obtained from Mr. Garrison after the TRO was entered in this case that you had given to him in your capacity as archivist?
have been produced at one deposition or another to the best of my knowledge.
possession a set of Orders of the Day from the Apollo?
Mr. Armstrong.
at one time?
from the period approximately 1970 to 1974. |
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possession?
belongs to one of my contacts whose identity the person seeks to preserve, if you're talking about the same set.
to you?
them to you, or what?
recollection is that he said did I want them.
You didn't take anything from your personnel or student files when you left; is that correct?
from Mr. Garrison? |
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biography or materials provided to him in connection with his biography work that you subsequently obtained from him other than archives materials themselves?
Mr. Armstrong, that we were discussing before, you said that Mr. Dincalci had given you the set from 1970 to 1975: is that correct?
I can't tell you the date that it starts or ends or even what percentage of the total orders of the day are comprised.
in this case regarding a set of documents known as orders of the day from the Apollo for the period of 1970 to 1975, "Please state, A, where you obtained these documents and, B, the date that the documents were obtained by you"?
very likely.
to defendant Armstrong by intervenor Mary Sue Hubbard and plaintiff Church of Scientology of California" at page 25; the document has a proof of service of the December 14, 1983.
tell me if that refreshes your recollection?
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remember that document?
responses of defendant Gerald Armstrong to interrogatories propounded by intervenor Mary Sue Hubbard and plaintiff Church of Scientology of California," do you recognize your signature there as verifying the responses executed on March 5, 1984?
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the answer to A which is where you obtained these documents, referring to Order of the Day is, "on the Apollo"; is that correct?
documents were obtained by you is, "1971 to 1975"; is that correct?
obtained your copies of the Orders of the Day from Jim Dincalci?
the Van Schaick deposition with me, and I had seen virtually every order of the day published between 1971 and 1975 because I was on the ship at the time, so I obtained each one of those documents at that time, and that is what I was referring to when I wrote that. |
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wrote the answer?
specific ones which I did not recall from Van Schaick, I believe I would have said in the Van Schaick deposition that I had seen all these documents prior to when I was on board the ship. They were not new documents to me, and I also think in Van Schaick that I laid out the obtaining of the documents at both times.
You had Orders of the Day when you were on the Apollo?
set from '70 through '74.
questions about materials that you have read in the course of your years in Scientology.
on the subject of Scientology?
Health," "Science of Survival," "Problems of Work," "New Slant on Life," book on Scientology ethics.
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from that period from 1969, the titles of which I don't recall, but there was a great number of them. Part of "8-8008","8-80," some of the "Credibility of Human Ability," Phoenix lectures.
that right?
"8-8008," "8-80."
of materials called "The Hubbard Standard Dianetics Course."
Dealing with Scientology Finances."
there were several publications in 1969 and 1970; do you remember any of them?
to books.
was one called "Success." I believe there is one entitled "Scientology."
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know if those were in '69 or '70, but definitely the "Advance" magazine in that period.
the Sea Organization. There may have been other magazines, the titles of which I don't recall right now. |
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organization?
But there were other ones as well which showed pictures of the ship and they were recruiting promotional pieces.
the ship; is that right?
of Scientology you read in that year?
the Check Out Mini Course.
How about books first?
any particular book from that period. There were mostly course packs, materials assembled into packs.
Mr. Armstrong; first, again addressing ourselves to books, what books did you read in addition to what you have already stated while you were on board ship in that time period; in other words, 1971 to 1975?
Today.
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Course. That is principally it that I can recall at this time -- oh, I'm sorry. I also read A Spy and His Masters and The Art of War. And I think there was another one called Total Espionage.
on some kind of regular basis?
publication. In any case, it came out regularly while we were on board.
they were published on board.
name. I think it changed from PRO News. But it was something similar. And that was put out as a newsletter during a period of time on board. That is what I recall.
materials that were designed to sort of introduce Scientology to others; for instance, some of these I am not that familiar with. So I may have my dates wrong. But, for instance, the Basic Scientology Picture Book or What is Scientology, books like that; did you read any of those, or were you familiar with them? |
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in 1978. So we wouldn't have had that on board.
I -- my perception of it was that it vas an introductory thing to get people into Scientology. And I did not look at it in depth. |
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A New Religion Emerges in This Space Age"?
parents, I think to a Member of Parliament, so I was to some degree familiar with it.
leaving the ship. Other books and periodicals that you read?
the "Volunteer Minister's Handbook."
reading. There may be more and I continually looked back over the earlier books. Somewhere along the line I read "Dianetics, The Original Thesis," "All About Radiation." That is one of the earlier books I read.
Meter Essentials" and these would have been after the ship. I would have read those in the RPF.
were in the RPF?
of auditing by an auditor, this machine that you called having electrodes?
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of Mr. Hubbard?
lecture in Vancouver and I really don't recall the name of it.
Tapes," I listened to the study tapes. It would have been in 1969/1970. On board the ship I listened to -- actually I listened to some more tapes on board the Bollivar in the beginning of February 1971 called the "Welcome to the Sea Org" series.
on the RPF. There were several tapes which I listened to having to do with auditing. Those are what I recall right now.
Doctorate" tapes, and "The Story of Dianetics and Scientology," "Ron's Journal 67."
this all on the ship?
but I also heard it on the ship and "Story of Dianetics and Scientology" that would have been perhaps 1979 or '80.
that?
but I listened to several of them in 1980 and '81 while doing the biography work. |
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time testifying. And I want to review some things just so I understand what it is.
are certain misrepresentations that are shown by these documents. And I would like to see if I can get an understanding of, in a general way, what the purported misrepresentations are.
misrepresentations concerning Mr. Hubbard's war record; is that correct?
misrepresentations include representations about medals that were received; is that right?
how many theatres of war that he was in?
an incident with some submarines or something like that?
are saying. I hear a lot of different things from Mr. Flynn and whatever. So I'm trying to find out from you exactly what it is.
an exhibit.
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need editorial comments.
I am not certain about.
these two things; what is it you contend with respect to Mr. Hubbard's war record that constitutes misrepresentations?
he did not -- was not cripled and blinded in the war; he was not the first casualty of the Far East; he was not flown home in the Secretary of the Navy's private plane; he was not replaced by 15 officers of rank at the beginning of the war.
asking you for what it is you claim are misrepresentations concerning Mr. Hubbard's war record.
represented that in your opinion is wrong, concerning his war record?
Those are what I recall right now.
significant? Would that be a fair statement?
is the overall picture of it. |
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particular thing is inaccurate, but it is, in your view, the fact that when taken as a whole, there is a wrong picture given?
years; I think you made some reference in the course of your testimony about his travels in the Near East; what is it that you claim constitutes misrepresentations about Mr. Hubbard's travels in Asia?
1924 to 1929 in the Far East; his having been in India, having studied in China under Llama priests; his being in Mongolia wandering through the Far East for years, those sorts of things.
there are misrepresentations about Mr. Hubbard's credentials?
credentials or things that he has done; is that correct?
claim has been misrepresented concerning Mr. Hubbard's academic credentials?
University; that he is a member of the first course in the |
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U.S. in atomic physics; that he was an atomic physicist; that he was an anthropologist; that he was a civil engineer; that he attended postgraduate studies at Princeton University,
your claim on that?
mineralogical survey of Puerto Rico: that he had supplied hydrographic information to the Hydrographic Office from his Caribbean cruise; that he had rewritten the Alaskan Pilot; that he had been the initiator of LORAN; that he had supplied underwater pictures to the university of Michigan; that he had studied several savage cultures.
activities?
I believe the list is very extensive. That is what comes to mind at this moment.
were misrepresentations, scientific misrepresentations, representations that were claimed to be scientific; is that part of what you are contending?
the workability or the guarantees offered by Dianetics and Scientology?
mean. I don't mean anything except to ask you the question to find out what you mean. |
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misrepresentations regarding the subject.
accomplish?
it can cut reaction time by 30 percent.
that you claim are misrepresentations?
produce a state of Clear; that it can produce a state of OT where a person is knowingly a cause over matter, energy, space, and time. Those are scientific claims. |
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common cold; that a Clear cannot get a cold; that it can cure arthritis.
documents show these claims to be false; is that right?
claims. I am the proof that they are false.
those things --
am not a thousand intelligent quotient points smarter.
I take it other former Scientologists are the proof that these claims about Scientology are not correct; is that right?
a part of it.
Is it also your claim that the documents show that these things are not true?
a lot of things, Counsel.
these claims about what Scientology can accomplish.
part of that proof.
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been represented scientifically that you claim is a misrepresentation?
believe any of this was gone into on direct, but I have no objection to it.
and I am just trying to understand what we have here, what the claims of misrepresentation are that he took the documents in order to defend himself about it.
way it is being phrased.
for the upcoming fraud lawsuit.
Honor, that there are hundreds of documents. We are trying to understand what it is that is supposed to be in issue.
I gather -- he refrained from discussing the truth or falsity of doctrines of Scientology. That would not be something that is triable under the First Amendment, and they have refrained from getting involved in that, but I guess if you want to keep asking about it, he will probably tell you his opinion about it.
said in his direct examination that Scientology has held itself out to be a science and that is false. I can find the court four or five different places, so we are left with this general statement that Scientology is claimed |
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to be a science.
statement that it is a science and not something else, and then saying that it is something else and not a science. I gather if that is what you want to know, yon can ask that.
are. we don't intend to go into all of this, but we just want to understand what are the purported misrepresentations.
exhibit double V, so Mr. Litt need only go through the four pages of exhibit double V line by line.
to cross-examine.
a lot of time. If you want to refer to that list and ask him whether those are the ones, go down one by one, it would be one way of doing it.
to do is to get some categories which I am almost done with.
church supplied to Mr. Hubbard. You claim there have been misrepresentations about that?
Mr. Hubbard?
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claim are the misstatements?
from the organization; that he was getting paid less than a staff member. That is principally it.
question of "Dive Bomber" which I won't go back into, but you claim that is a misrepresentation.
gone through, have I covered the main areas or have you covered the main areas that you claim constitute misrepre- sentations concerning Mr. Hubbard?
think that ultimately another area will develop, and that is Mr. Hubbard's intention and what exactly he set up the Sea Organization and Scientology for. |
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misrepresented. They were misrepresented to me and misrepresented to the public.
Scientology and you claim it was set up for him personally, is that the idea?
he can obtain control over people.
to the time when you first came into contact with Scientology; you were in Vancouver at that time; is that right?
form were introduced to Scientology? Do you recall as specifically as possible when that was?
it was in the Star Weekly Newspaper, in the magazine section on the weekend. And would have been -- I don't know the year, maybe '67, maybe earlier than that, maybe '65, '66.
I had ever seen the word Scientology.
correct?
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now is just at what point -- in 1969 you came in contact with something having to do with Scientology which ultimately ended up with your becoming involved in Scientology; right?
summer of 1969.
Columbia.
dropped out of school; is that right?
the logging, or were you in a more rural area?
Canada?
at that time out in the bush, out in the woods.
further contact with Scientology, or were you in the city, or what?
at that point.
had at that point with Scientology take? Were you given a publication again, or what? |
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And they told me about another person who we knew who had just come back from Toronto after being involved with Scientology for some time in Vancouver and Toronto.
and then did you decide to seek out Scientology in some form to find out more about it?
who had been involved in Scientology for a number of years.
the person?
remember?
at a lake near Chilovac.
he had been doing, do you remember their names?
Scientology?
subject at that time.
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to Mr. Hubbard.
to the mind.
of operating thetan or OT. That was mainly it.
several days; were these -- did the two of you just get together and discuss this subject for several days, or what?
times often for many hours at a time. He gave me the books out of his library at that time.
Dianetics and Modern Science of Mental Health.
complete library of books that were published to that date.
to you?
were having discussions with him, did you read these books?
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and started this discussion which turned out, as I understand it, to be 1ike a month-long discussion about whether -- about Scientology which I gather you found interesting and wanted to pursue at the time; is that correct?
we met several days ever the course of a month, at the end of which I went to the Scientology franchise in Vancouver, but --
a literal 30 days in a row conversation, but in the course of a month you had several, several hour conversations; correct?
of things that he told you about. Let's take a few of them.
of Clear; what did he tell you about that?
mind. Could not be stimulated by external stimuli. He was in total control of his mind. Could not get sick.
mind was in Scientology?
of incidents of pain and unconsciousness and the incidents |
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connected to that. He explained to me ingrams, secondaries and locks.
of auditing to these concepts that you have just been describing?
processes, of earlier similar processes, of erasure and of obtaining the -- something called basic basic, and in that way the eradication of the reactive hind and the production of the state of Clear.
you something about his own auditing; is that right?
been audited on - what he told me about was the first couple of grades. I remember him telling me about grade zero.
release and the fact that he had become a communications release in a matter of three seconds.
the operating thetan; is that right?
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the mind, used the mind for the control of the body and was the entity that viewed the pictures in the mind, and that this entity could be knowingly exterior from the body and that that was the state producable in Scientology, and that an OT could operate the body knowingly from outside the body and could leave the body at will.
of the spirit being independent of the body or soul or whatever phrase you want to use, something like that?
and he quoted from the factors and from the axioms of Scientology and his description was more along the lines of the axioms, not located in space and time kind of description, able to postulate and perceive. Not so much that it was a spirit in the religious sense, but that it was a scientific, definable term and he spoke in those kinds of terms.
an operating thetan. What more did he describe to you than you have already told us about that?
space and time, the fact that these OT's could be where they wanted and do what they wanted.
mind worked than what you have already described as you recall?
over the consecutive record of mental image pictures, the |
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time track, how it vas created, how it is alleviated, the process of auditing.
recess.
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present; the witness has retaken the stand.
are still under oath.
book from someone that is dedicated to Alexis Valerie Hubbard. And I would like to give it back to her and enter Xeroxed copies of the dedication page of three separate printings of the book from '51 up to 1956, if I could.
CCC.
procedure?
name of the book?
edition of which is copyright 1951 by L. Ron Hubbard.
series of conversations that you had with Mr. Benett, do you recall anything else that he told you concerning the general philosophy or belief, the system of Scientology in this series of discussions that you haven't described already? |
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about something called "Spinning the paradox of life and death." And what that was, I never did find out from him or I could never quite phathom it until possibly many years later. But he went on at some length about it. That is the only other thing that sort of sticks in my mind from that period.
Mr. Hubbard; do you recall anything be told you about Mr. Hubbard?
he was in the Mediterranean at that time; that he was the sole developer of this whole thing; that he was OT; that he was -- Roger, used the name synthesized, synthesized the Eastern philosophy with the Western scientific approach, something like that. |
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That was mainly it at that time.
that you were interested in pursuing Scientology more; is that correct?
it. At this point I went and talked to a Scientologist in Vancouver.
to recall his name was Hanson. I don't recall his first name and I only saw him this one time down in Vancouver.
that time because that was the highest level of OT which had been released by Mr. Hubbard that I knew up to that time, so it was significant that I met this gentleman in Vancouver.
and that was the last time I ever saw him. I had long conversations and attended lectures shortly thereafter.
Mountain Mission or franchise or whatever?
working at the logging camp and coming down the weekends; is that it or evenings?
different logging camp. I was logging up in a different part of British Columbia, and I had a different home in |
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Chilovac, so it was just the first few times I went down to Vancouver on weekends.
1969 I moved to Vancouver and got a completely different job and started attending lectures, and shortly thereafter got involved with Scientology on a continual basis from then on.
who gave those?
someone by the name of Graham Leese, and he was the owner and executive director of the franchise.
by the name of Kingsley Wimbush lectured, and there were a few people throughout that period who gave lectures.
lectures, what was the general topic of the lectures?
to be taken.
attended a series of lectures. The series of lectures wasn't about Scientology. It was about some other course that people should take?
of Scientology that it was about was the next course. In Scientology there is a series of courses which one takes, series of steps, a gradient into and out of Scientology, |
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and I was being lectured to about the next course that I should take; initially the first course and then a second course.
discussion about the various tenets or beliefs in a general way of Scientology on certain topics, similar to what you have talked about with Roger Bennett?
lectures, did you take a course?
did you take another course?
Scientologist Course.
of Scientology and Scientology belief system on various topics?
which were done. Information was provided prior to doing the drills and then drills were done.
you decided to join the staff of the Little Mountain Organization?
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got paid as a staff member and that was after I began the, I guess, the third course which was the -- called the Hubbard Standard Dianetics Course.
the decision to go on the staff of the Little Mountain Organization?
would have been fairly early in the year, maybe April.
Scientology offered something that at that point made sense to you?
help you and help others?
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were trying -- problems in your own life that you were trying to solve at that time that you felt that Scientology would or had been helping you solve?
six-month period indicated that it was something new in the contacts that you had had with it to date as you viewed it then?
point in April, 1970 when you went on staff; had you participated in auditing?
that period -- no. Actually, before I went on staff I began auditing, I received what is called the Scientology grades.
participated in at the time that you went on staff if you recall?
along with Scientology in general, was something that seemed to you to be useful for yourself and others?
the problem which was essential to me. I was told after doing the auditing steps, that that would only happen at Clear. |
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up and sooner or later what I sought would happen.
solved the problem or problems, I don't know for sure, that you were interested in, in a general way, what was it? What were the things that were of concern to you at the time that contributed to your joining Scientology?
things in the sense that things would logically be experienced; but that I experienced the experience. I was one step removed from experience. I lived in concepts, not in the reality of the world.
outside that, And I sought in Scientology the vehicle to get outside that and to be honest and to be courageous enough to live in the reality of the world.
was altered and that out of that would grow the courage to be able to live in the reality and not live out of experienced experience or concepts.
based on your experience with Scientology, up to that point, that Scientology would help you to accomplish this thing; is that correct?
April, 1970 that Scientology would help you to solve these problems that you were concerned with? |
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did you feel that Scientology would help solve society's problems?
deal with problems of drugs?
to the use of drugs at that time?
personal sense to deal with any problems of drugs that you may have had?
evidence. I'll sustain the objection.
was there any change for you after coming into Scientology with respect to your -- prior to Scientology, and without asking you any details, had you used any drugs at all?
into Scientology, I did not use drugs through the time that I was in Scientology. |
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that, I don't know.
under seal?
I don't believe that any of these are under seal.
is a document entitled "PRO News" that you testified about in the course of your direct examination, that particular copy of that publication, is that your copy?
point?
entitled "Successes of Scientology"; is that your magazine?
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T, is it true that you first saw this particular copy from Mr. Flynn about a month ago?
"Scientology, The Field Staff Member Magazine" you first saw this about a mouth ago?
documents or publications?
yes.
you have a specific recollection that you saw the "PRO News" dated April 1970 in Vancouver?
but in any case I have seen this very early on in Vancouver.
you say early on?
News itself or only the biography?
very similar to that. I don't recall all the notes on |
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the front because I saw so many of these things, but I definitely saw with this story in Vancouver.
entitled "Successes of Scientology" you have a particular recollection of having seen that?
I think both of these publications, this one and that one, were on sale or they were sold in the Scientology Mission. I believe they sold for either a dollar or 50 cants each at that tine, but I bought both of these.
but the contents?
they not, statements from a variety of people about their experience with Scientology and how it helped them?
contents of that; is that correct? A Yes. I don't know if I read every word, |
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but I would have gone through it, yes.
pages, 39 or 40 pages long if you include the back; is that correct?
Scientology's belief system; does it not?
parts, divided up the urge for survival into survival along eight separate dynamics or eight distinct parts or paths.
including one's self, family, group, et cetera, is that right?
the tone scale; is that correct?
called "States of Existence," "Road to Clear," "Scientology Training," "The Reactive Mind."
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-- it doesn't have numbered pages, it looks like it is about 16 pages. Similarly it has a variety of articles on Scientology and different reports about Scientology and what it stands for or experiences within Scientology organizations or what Scientology organizations do?
read that?
in Vancouver.
1970 and what were your duties?
I wrote letters. I mimeographed issues. Took care of files. I cleaned the building. I sold courses and took care of the banking.
period as well?
continued on past the point of my joining staff, yes.
1970 you had about 40 hours of auditing. Taking the remainder |
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of the year, about how many more hours of auditing did you have?
year.
There may have been some hours of what is called review. |
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a review of that auditing is done. And there are various procedures that are gone through until the person gets the desired result.
the desired result and I had some of this review auditing. My recollection is that I used up the 40 hours which were allocated for the -- for this auditing. I only paid for 40 hours. And I would have had to pay for more hours to get more auditing. I think it ended at 40.
lectured; you gave lectures; is that right?
coming in and being introduced to Scientology?
you had heard some months before?
in general?
I was selling what auditing was; what the promises of auditing were. That was mainly it.
how auditing worked and the concepts of the mind that we have |
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already talked about as it pertains in Scientology?
you have described that Roger Benett gave to you, perhaps not as such depth, but some of the various elements of Scientology belief; correct?
courses that a person would take would be about.
course, it also had another name; didn't it?
have the name "The Hubbard Apprentice Scientologist, A Scientology Course"?
Vancouver area.
that correct?
was designed to introduce people to certain fundamental concepts within Scientology; is that correct?
spent several days -- I don't know whether this is a First Amendment area or not. |
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going into anything having to do with the philosophy or religion of Scientology itself. Whether it is or not, it is hard for me to tell the way the questions are framed. I don't believe this has been the subject of direct, number one.
Rights on this issue, I think the record should show that. I don't see any relevancy to this whole line of questioning on philosophy.
entered and participated in Scientology based upon what he had been told about Mr. Hubbard's background. We are establishing -- and I think have largely established already -- that he joined Scientology because what he had learned about Scientology made sense to him at the time.
are correct or not or true or false, but simply what his state of mind was about what he told people about, what he did, what he learned, what his motivation was for joining. I think in light of this claim that has been made throughout this testimony, that --
to spend the rest of my life on this case. Let's try to move it along.
this period. But we want to show what his general experience |
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and attitude was in Scientology. I think there has been testimony about characterizing it a certain way.
among the concepts that you taught were concepts about Scientology's view of the mind; is that correct?
himself and not the body or the mind?
relationship between Scientology and Dianetics?
to time. And I really can't say what the relationship was at that time or even if we covered it in lectures. Q Okay. What did you tell people about what Scientology itself was? If people asked you for a one-line definition of Scientology, what would you tell them?
to people and how auditing worked?
about how to improve communications; is that right, between people? |
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others better using Scientology?
somebody come and talk about the Sea organization; correct?
concerning the Sea organization to some degree at least. One of them was a specific Sea Organization Mission. And one of the purposes of which was recruitment.
Mission, but it was for some other purpose; although recruitment was, again, a part of it. And I don't recall what the -- it was an event of some sort and there was -- I don't recall what else was being promoted at that time, but there was something else.
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the Sea Organization was a group of highly dedicated Scientologists who had committed their life to Scientology; is that right?
promoted was usually the people who are working directly with Ron, getting in ethics on the planet.
Scientology concept? In other words, people were saying that people in the Sea Org were working directly with Mr. Hubbard and using Scientology to help the world, something like that? That is what you believed: wasn't it?
is an unethical place. There are enemies of mankind who are destroying the planet and the resolution of that is to get in ethics, to make it an ethical environment in which honest actions can have rights.
Org was made up of a group of dedicated people who worked with Mr. Hubbard who were trying to deal with the situation on the plant that you have described?
it then and as it was presented to you?
recall who were the people who did this --- gave you these talks?
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you which came first, but any recollection is that the first one was Heber and Yvonne Jench. They may not have been married at that point, so it may have been Heber Jench and Yvonne Gillam, but they mere definitely the main people involved in the main event, and the other one was Laurel Watson. She gave a talk, a lecture.
these were sort of mainly focused on the Sea Org itself; is that right?
your experience in Scientology, you decided to make this commitment and join the Sea Org; is that right?
enthusiastic about doing this?
emotion there. I think maybe I was so frightened that I did it.
the Sea Organization to join it because you were frightened about what would happen to the world if the Sea Org didn't accomplish its mission; is that what you are referring to?
he could to help Ron clear the planet.
of clearing the planet was a positive goal? |
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commit your whole life to this and you weren't enthusiastic, simply afraid; is that your testimony?
a great deal of a motivation which kept me in for so many years. I think I possibly --
the Sea Organization.
the Sea Organization because you were afraid?
overcome a great deal of fear to do that, but I wanted to do whatever I could to help this man clear the planet, to make it an ethical environment, to bring honesty and integrity to planet Earth. |
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you did all of this and made your commitment because of fear; is that right?
I was being told that we had better get ready because death's dark curtain is about to descend on this planet. And there is a great deal of fear wrapped up with being in Scientology.
what I did right there and now in Scientology, quote Mr. Hubbard.
long commitment and you left Vancouver then and flew to Los Angeles; is that right?
right?
speeches that you heard, speeches for people to come into the Sea organization until the time that you went to Los Angeles, how long a period was that?
to make some money. And I sold everything that I had and bought what was necessary for joining the Sea organization and went off and joined. |
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and Heber and Yvonne Jench occur?
exact date, but they predated my leaving.
shortly thereafter you, along with several other people, were sent to the Mediterranean; is that right?
to Algeciras which, I believe, is on the Atlantic side of the Mediterranean.
with other people?
John Murphy; one of them was named Jim Hausen and there was another one. I think his last name was Rivera. But I don't recall his first name. It is a Latin name.
to the ship with you?
you have to travel some place else to get to the ship?
to Algeciras and from Algeciras across by ferry to Tangiers; |
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across the Straits of Gibraltar.
on the ship, but I have a couple of questions on that period.
were in charge of greeting the people who you would meet at various portal was that the port captain? Was that --
1975. But it depended on which position I was holding at the time as to who I would meet when I was the ship's rep.
I would meet the pilot; then the port guard and customs agent and the port authority for clearing the ship into port, submitting all the documentation necessary for the clearance of the vessel into the country. |
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points to transport people when the ship was docked, to drive people to various places? There were vehicles on board the ship; right?
people during an early period of time when I was -- first of all when I was called the ship boats and transport in charge which would have been approximately February or March.
circuit some of this. I really am looking for brief answers. Were some of your duties that you would drive people around at various times? That is all.
-- yes.
the period of time that you were on board the ship you were in fear; is that right? I seem to recall some such testimony.
described before that you just described earlier that you were afraid for humanity or what would happen to the planet?
a lot of fears of different things.
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of being RPF'd, fear of being SP, fear of falling out of favor with L. Ron Hubbard.
did not create a state of peace of mind.
before the ships themselves stopped sailing?
at some point take a trip off the ship for some period of time?
that right?
had it not, that something had happened to you, either that you had been killed or you had been shanghaied; is that right?
reassure them that you were all right; is that right?
as well as the trip to Canada? |
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mother was living in Los Angeles. Her father was living in Phoenix.
about a month; correct?
parents and reassured them, did you not, that you were fine?
correct?
the fact that you were in Scientology?
Scientology?
you?
was important to you? |
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when you told them that, didn't you, or were you lying to your parents?
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believed those things, then, didn't you, Mr. Armstrong, that you were telling me?
right for me to tell them that.
Didn't you believe those things then?
level I believed those things.
with your wife; isn't that right?
wanted to; is that right?
counsel.
correct?
that correct?
some books to your -- I believe you said to your parents and also to someone else while you were on this trip that |
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you have described; is that right?
gave is "Scientology a World Religion Emerges in the Space Age"; is that right?
Honor?
on this particular book. So if -- it is up to the court; I can begin, but it is five minutes to 4:00. And so we can --
to the use of any part of the book?
is. We'll deal with the question when it is asked.
gave people this particular book because you felt it would give them an introduction --
that he gave people --
or something like that?
Parliament, but he wasn't there. So I ended up giving it |
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to the chief of police of the town that I was from.
because you felt that it would give then a good general introduction to Scientology for someone who was not familiar with it and who hadn't had any experience with it; is that correct?
book was because I was ordered to do so by the assistant controller for intelligence, Jimmy Mulligan. I was briefed by him before leaving the ship. And this was part of the DA materials which he provided to me and which I was to provide to the official who my mother had contacted in trying to find out where I was. |
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a general introduction that would explain, it does explain basic concepts of Scientology that we have already talked about; right? Do you recall that?
concepts as the witness now understands them?
falsely represented?
at the time.
too, Your Honor.
Mulligan, and Mr. Mulligan was attached to the intelligence unit, so he'd be speculating as what Mr. Mulligan's intentions were.
clear whose intentions we are talking about.
that you were generally familiar with this book; correct?
in detail, you had reviewed it, correct, before you gave it to your parents?
it presented a basic introduction for a non-Scientologist |
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concerning several concepts of Scientology and information that would be helpful to understand Scientology?
the way I was viewing --
back and listen to it carefully.
asked if he agreed. You could ask him what his state of mind was. I don't know, agreement involves two people usually.
time, Mr. Armstrong, was it not that this book explained several basic ideas of Scientology?
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be understood by someone who was not a Scientologist?
and to this chief of police, feeling that it would provide them such a basic introduction for a non-Scientologist; didn't you?
tomorrow morning at 9 o'clock.
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