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SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA

FOR THE COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES

DEPARTMENT NO. 57        HON. PAUL G. BRECKENRIDGE, JR., JUDGE

 

CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY OF CALIFORNIA,

Plaintiff,

vs.

GERALD ARMSTRONG,

Defendant.


MARY SUE HUBBARD,

Intervenor.


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No. C 420153

REPORTERS' TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS

Friday, May 11, 1984

 

APPEARANCES:        

  (See Appearances page.)

 

 

 

VOLUME 10

Pages 1564 - 1739, incl.

  NANCY L. HARRIS, CSR #644
HERB CANNON, CSR #1923
Official Reporters
   
 

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APPEARANCES:

 

For the Plaintiff:

PETERSON & BRYNAN
BY: JOHN G. PETERSON
8530 Wilshire Boulevard
Suite 407
Beverly Hills, California 90211
(213) 659-9965

-and-

ROBERT N. HARRIS
The Oviatt Building
617 South Olive Street
Suite 915
Los Angeles, California 90014
(213) 623-7511

 

For the Intervenor:

LITT & STORMER
BY: BARRETT S. LITT
Paramount Plaza
3550 Wilshire Boulevard
Suite 1200
Los Angeles, California 90010
(213) 386-4303

-and-

BARRETT S. LITT
BY: MICHAEL S. MAGNUSON
The Oviatt Building
617 South Olive Street
Suite 1000
Los Angeles, California 90014
(213) 623-7511

 

For the Defendant:

CONTOS & BUNCH
BY: MICHAEL J. FLYNN

- and-

JULIA DRAGOJEVIC
5855 Topanga Canyon Boulevard
Suite 400
Woodland Hills, California 91367
(213) 716-9400

 

 

 

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INDEX FOR VOLUME 10

Pages 1564 - 1739, incl.

Day Date  
Page

WITNESS

DEFENSE:

DIRECT

ARMSTRONG, Gerald
(resumed)
(resumed)

1565
1658

EXHIBITS


DEFENSE
:

FOR
IDENTIFICATION

DD - Document re Dive Bomber, 2-11-80

1579
EE - 3-page letter, Wertheimer to Brennan, 11-17-80

FF - 2-page letter, Wertheimer to Brennan, 12-2-80

GG - 1-page letter, Brennan to Wertheimer, 1-2-81

1633
HH - 4-page letter, 10-23-81 & 1 page, 10-23-81

1653
II - 6-page letter, Gerry to Cirrus, 11-25-81

1654

JJ - 9-page letter, Young to Sue, 11-18-81

1666

KK - 1-page handwritten letter, to Sue, 11-28-81

1672

LL - 1-page letter, vaughn to Karin, 11-28-81

1676

MM - 6-page document

NN - 1-page document

OO - Letter, 12-16

1697

PP - Document, 2-18-82

1698

QQ - letter, 2-24-82 1702

RR - HCO policy letter, 10-18-67

1704
SS - Two color photographs

1730

 

 

 

 
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LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA; FRIDAY, MAY 11, 1984; 9:08 A.M.

-o0o-

 

THE COURT: All right, in the case on trial, let the

record reflect that counsel is present. Mr. Armstrong, you

may retake the stand.

 

GERALD ARMSTRONG,

the witness on the stand at the time of the adjournment,

having been previously duly sworn, resumed the stand and

testified further as follows:

THE COURT: Just have a seat. State your name again

for the record, sir. You are still under oath.

THE WITNESS: Gerald Armstrong.

THE COURT: You may continue, Mr. Flynn?

MR. FLYNN: Thank you, Your Honor.

THE COURT: Did you have something, Mr. Harris?

MR. HARRIS: I just have a brief item, Your Honor. I

checked. There were two items requested yesterday. In

any event, we checked.

There is the COLED 824 LRH biography plan which

we think probably was produced to the defense previously,

but in any event here it is.

THE COURT: All right.

 

 

 
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MR. HARRIS: With respect to the alleged letter to the

founder, Mr. Hubbard, of the non-existence formula by this

witness, there is no such thing. We were not able to find

it. And we have access to all the materials, as far as we

can tell, that he had in his area.

THE COURT: All right.

 

DIRECT EXAMINATION (Resumed)

BY MR. FLYNN:

Q Mr. Armstrong, do you recall that your testimony

that when you boarded the Apollo and prior to joining Sea Org

it was represented to you that Mr. Hubbard had resigned from

all managerial or supervisory posts of the Church of Scientology

in 1966?

MR. HARRIS: I do not believe that was his testimony.

THE COURT: I don't recall anything like that.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: Were any representations made to

you about Mr. Hubbard's position, first, within the Church

of Scientology prior to your joining the Sea Organization?

A The only -- the only thing that comes to mind

was the fact that he was the -- the Sea Org worked directly

for Ron.

Q After you joined the organization and boarded

the Apollo were representations made to you that he had

resigned from any position, manager, or director or officer

of any Scientology organization?

A No.

I did read what is called, I believe, the

 

 

 
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Guardian policy letter. And I don't recall the date of it,

but it would have been in 1966 in which something to that

effect was written. But it was completely obvious to me and

to everyone else on board that Mr. Hubbard was completely

engaged in management on a day-to-day basis. So nothing like

that ever came up.

MR. LITT: That is his opinion, I take it, Your Honor?

We certainly don't have a foundation.

THE COURT: It is nonresponsive; everything after he

saw some Guardian policy memoranda, I'll strike everything

else.

 

 

 
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Q BY MR. FLYNN: Now after you became the ship's

representative, were questions asked of you as to what

Mr. Hubbard's position was in relationship to the Church of

Scientology?

A I don't believe that I ever fielded that

question. I was drilled on that subject.

Q All right, and how were you drilled on that

subject?

A The answer was that Mr. Hubbard had resigned

as a director in 1966 and was no longer engaged in the management

of Scientology organizations.

Q And will you explain the circumstances under

which that was drilled?

A There were a number of questions and areas

which were included in briefing packs of materials to do with

the ship, to do with Scientology, to do with Mr. Hubbard,

and that was included in that pack of materials as an answer

to the question on his control.

Q Now, were those briefing packs given to everyone

who came on board the ship?

A Not necessarily that -- the complete briefing

pack.

Q Was a briefing to the effect that L. Ron Hubbard

had resigned all managerial roles in the Church of Scientology

given to everyone who came on board the ship?

A No.

Q Under what circumstances were those briefings

given?

 

 

 
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A You mean to do with the subject of --

Q Of L. Ron Hubbard's status in relationship to

the Church of Scientology.

A Well, those on board, and I can definitely

speak for myself, knew that he controled the operation on

board and outside the -- in other organizations around the

world, and it would be ridiculous for me to be briefed that

he was not.

The briefing that I am referring to is what I

would brief to inform others. I was in the particular

position of dealing with a lot of local officials, a lot of

local press, and with people who might show up at the ship

from other organizations without being invited in, people

who sought to talk to Mr. Hubbard, for example.

So, it was in the context of drilling to be

able to handle those sorts of public that I would state

the story that he had resigned as a director.

Q Now, during the period that you were on the

Apollo did you have the opportunity to observe Mr. Hubbard's

position in relationship to the Church of Scientology?

A Yes.

Q And what did you observe?

A That he controlled it.

Q And in what --

MR. HARRIS: May that be stricken as a conclusion,

Your Honor, without an adequate foundation?

THE COURT: Well, I will have to strike that.

Q BY MR. FLYNN:what specific activities did you

 

 

 
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observe that Mr. Hubbard was engaged in with respect to his

relationship with the Church of Scientology?

A There were two aspects to it. The first was

an on-board aspect, and the second was a managerial aspect

of outer Scientology organizations.

On board he was in control of every aspect.

His messengers ran messages from him and ran orders into the

galley, into the engine room, into the port captain's office,

into the legal bureau, into the ship's operation when we were

at sea, when we were in port. I observed the messengers

running those messages.

 

 

 
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I received orders from Mr. Hubbard throughout

the four-plus years that I was on board. And I saw on an

international basis, I saw evaluations which were done by

Mr. Hubbard, orders which were issued by Mr. Hubbard,

telexes from Mr. Hubbard to organizations internationally.

I saw the mail which arrived to and from

Mr. Hubbard. And from, that I was able to draw a fairly

good conclusion that he was in control.

Q Now, when you went on board the Apollo do

you recall your testimony that you were working for a

corporation called Operation Transport Corporation?

A Yes.

Q Between the time that you worked for Operation

Transport Corporation up until the time that you began

collecting the personal documents of L. Ron Hubbard for the

biography project, was there any change in your relationship

with Mr. Hubbard; specifically, with regard to working for

him?

A Yes. There was a series of changes.

Q And what were those changes?

A From the time when I was on the ship, although

I was working for him, I was not working on his -- for him

on an individual or personal basis. I was not dealing with his

personal matters, but rather, matters for the whole ship's

company which included him.

In Dunedin I was working for him. I was in the

LRH External Com Bureau. And when I moved from there to

Astra, which was the staging area appartments in Culver City,

 

 

 
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I was working directly for him. I was, again, in the LRH

External Com Bureau. And I was in a very small group of

people, all of them in the personal office of L. Ron Hubbard

and all living with him. And I was taking care -- I was

solely taking care of his needs.

When I went to the RPF, then, again, I was

more distant. And I was not at that point in the personal

office of L. Ron Hubbard.

When I again rejoined Mr. Hubbard at the end of

1977, I was working with him personally in making movies.

When I began to work on his house in the

Household Unit, which are the group of people who serve his

very personal needs, I was working directly for him.

I had nothing whatsoever to do with what you

would call church affairs or church personnel or anything

like that.

That continued when I remained in the personal

office and worked for him assembling his personal archives

for the biography to be done on him.

Q Now, you mentioned the personal office of

L. Ron Hubbard; what is that?

A The personal office of L. Ron Hubbard is the

group of people who perform various functions which are

personal for Mr. Hubbard.

Q Was there various divisions within the

LRH personal office?

A When I was a part of that office, there were a

number, yes.

 

 

 
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Q What are they?

A There was the LRH PR Bureau; LRH Artists;

LRH Compilations Unit; LRH Accounts Unit; there was the

personal secretary, LRH's personal secretary. There was the

LRH Assembly Unit and Authorization end Verification Unit.

Q And was there the LRH Household Unit?

A Yes. That is another section.

Q What did the LRH Compilation Unit do?

A The Compilations Unit took materials which had

been published in one form or another, writings by

Mr. Hubbard, and compiled them into various packs or orders

or books or pamphlets or magazines and -- for publication,

republication, and sale.

Q To your knowledge was that a profit-making

operation?

A Well, it certainly did make profit for

Mr. Hubbard.

Q Were all of the units that you just described

all profit-making divisions of the LRH personal office for

L. Ron Hubbard.

MR. HARRIS: May we have an objection to this as

calling for a conclusion of the witness without adequate

foundation.

I move to strike the book, et cetera,

Compilations Unit as certainly making profit for Mr. Hubbard,

Your Honor.

THE COURT: It is a little late, but I'll strike it.

You have to lay some kind of foundation as to

the basis of his knowledge.

 

 

 
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Q BY MR. FLYNN: Were you in any of these units

other than the Household Unit?

A I was in the PR Bureau.

Q And when did you join the PR Bureau?

A 1980.

Q Now with regard to the Household Unit, did the

Household Unit perform any services for the Church of Scientology

or any of its divisions to your knowledge of any nature or

description?

A No.

Q Did all of its services relate to personal

services of Mr. Hubbard?

A Yes.

Q And you described the personal services that

you worked on yesterday; is that correct?

A Yes.

Q With regard to the LRH PR Bureau, did you

become familiar during the period that you were on the

biography project with the operation of that bureau?

A Yes.

Q And the head of that bureau was who?

A During most of the period in which I was in the

bureau it was Laurel Sullivan.

Q Were there meetings between you and Laurel

Sullivan with regard to the purpose of the LRH PR Bureau,

particularly with regard to the project that you were working

on?

A I don't think it was ever discussed, the

 

 

 
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purpose of the PR Bureau in that context. There was a

purpose of the biography project.

Q And what was that purpose?

A There were a number of purposes. One was

increased acceptance of L. Ron Hubbard and his products.

One was money to L. Ron Hubbard. One was increased PR

for Mr. Hubbard.

Q Now, when you say that money to L. Ron Hubbard,

did you participate in meetings in which the question of

whether Mr. Hubbard would receive royalties on the book to be

written by Omar Garrison was discussed?

A Yes.

Q And who participated in such meetings?

A There was a number of such meetings. Laurel and

I discussed it at some time and, in fact, I made some grids

of the -- which involved the splitting of royalties between

Omar Garrison and how much they would make on a given amount

of sales of books, and the subject was also discussed at some

length with Laurel Sullivan and Alan Wertheimer.

Q And were you present in those meetings?

A I was present at least at some of the meetings.

Q To your knowledge was it always the intended

purpose of the biography project in which you were working

that Mr. Hubbard derive income from the sales of the book to

be written by Omar Garrison?

A That was definitely a large part of it.

Q With regard to the LRH Accounts Unit, do you

have a general familiarity with what the purpose of that unit

 

 

 
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was?

A Yes.

Q And what is the basis for your understanding

of what the purpose of that unit was?

A From talking to the people who were the LRH

Acounts through time and from my dealings with them.

Q And who were these people?

A The first one that I recall was someone called

Vicky Polimeni; later Vicky Livingston, and there was

Mike Smith and then Jim Isaacson.

Q And did you have the opportunity to observe them

in connection with their duties in the LRH Accounts Unit?

A Not a lot but some.

Q What did you observe?

A I knew that they handled the accounts of

Mr. Hubbard, his bank and his sources of income, and that

they were very much involved with the sale of his book and

his income from various sources.

Q For the moment I am going to digress from

this subject and then we are going to come back to it.

Now, I'd like to take you back, Mr. Armstrong,

to the beginning of the biography project in February 1980.

At that time do you recall a program relating to the Safe

Environment Fund?

A Yes.

Q And what was that program?

A Well, the Safe Environment Fund was an organization

which was established of Scientologists which was established

 

 

 
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of Scientologists and principally GO personnel to raise money

for the defense of the 11 people involved in the Federal

criminal case.

Q And at some point in time did you become

involved in part of that project?

A Yes.

Q And when was that?

A Some time in February 1980, the beginning of

February.

Q And describe the circumstances under which you

became involved?

A One of the Safe Environment Fund personnel by

the name of Jerry McNeely who was then in the Guardian's

Office, having read that Mr. Hubbard wrote the screenplay

for the movie "Dive Bomber" created an idea of renting the

movie "Dive Bomber" -- it was a 1940 Warner Brothers movie --

and showing it to some Scientologists in public and obtaining

through the sale of tickets to that movie and through the

promotion of the movie as L. Ron Hubbard's movie income for

the Safe Environment Fund.

 

 

 
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I became involved because Laurel was asked --

and I had moved by that time into the P.R. Bureau -- Laurel

was asked by Jerry McNeely to give a talk, a L.R.H. talk at

the event, at the movie showing. So she agreed.

I, at that point, saw some of the promotional

materials which the Safe Environment Fund was distributing.

And they had posters made up and glossy promotional items.

L. Ron Hubbard was noted as the man behind the

scenes.

They had obtained a poster from the Dive Bomber

movie and then reprinted it with some text underneath it

concerning L. Ron Hubbard and his part in the movie.

At that point I had obtained from Del Sol a great

amount of materials. And I had within those materials

information concerning Mr. Hubbard's involvement in the screen

plays, screen writing in Hollywood.

So I tried to assemble documentation at that time,

thinking that I would support the -- you know, add some color

to it, perhaps some anecdotal material that Laurel could

include in her speech.

And in going through the material, I couldn't

find anything to do with Dive Bomber.

I obtained a copy of the short story which

Mr. Hubbard had written and had been produced in a pulp

magazine in, I believe, 1936. And I checked the screen --

I read through the story and then I went to the Academy of

the Motion Pictures Arts and Sciences here in Los Angeles --

I was then in Gilman Hot Springs -- and I obtained a copy

 

 

 
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just for reading of the screen play or, at least, a synopsis

or a treatment. And I realized that the two were completely

different.

And I also saw that Mr. Hubbard's name was not

noted in the credits. And I believe there were a couple of

writers noted.

In any case, I checked their names against other

records in the Academy Library and confirmed that they couldn't

have been him because they were writing on several other

movies which he could not possibly have been involved with.

So they weren't pseudonyms that he was using.

So then I sent to Mr. Hubbard some of the

information which I had obtained on the movie. Up to that

point because I had also contacted -- thinking at that point

that perhaps there was some error, maybe he did not write

Dive Bomber, I didn't want to have the Safe Environment Fund

promoting this thing if he had not in fact done it. It would

have been embarrassing if someone had, said, "where is your

name" and his name wasn't on it.

People had paid money. So I thought perhaps I

could come up with something else that could be a substitute.

So I tried to get ahold of one which I knew he

had written called The Secrets of Treasure Island which was

a 15-part Saturday afternoon serial. He wrote that for

Columbia, at least he worked on the screen plays.

I couldn't find that with Columbia. So I wrote

to Mr. Hubbard and let him know what I had found to date in

the research that I had done. And he didn't answer me.

 

 

 
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But he sent down a dispatch to the Safe Environment

Fund and a copy to Laurel which I had at that time.

And in that document he said that there was no

credit for the movie, but that he had in fact written it.

And he -- sounded like he was going to create

some trouble for the studio. And it was just before the war.

And one day the PR representative for the studio called him

up and said -- was very apologetic because he could have been

sued for, I believe it was, a dollar per foot.

And so he gave Mr. Hubbard a certified check which

Mr. Hubbard stuck in a safety deposit box until the end of

the war, at which time he went on a Caribbean cruise.

Q That is what the document said?

A To my recollection, Yes.

Q Do you know whether that document is under seal?

A Yes, it is.

MR. FLYNN: May we have that, Your honor? That is T.

Q Is this the document received from Mr. Hubbard

that you just testified about?

A Yes.

Q Now, in the -- May this be marked as defendant's next in order,

Your Honor?

THE COURT: All right. DD.

MR. FLYNN: Should I mark that and give it --

THE COURT: Just put "double D" on it.

MR. FLYNN: in Massachusettes, Your Honor, the lawyer

is not allowed to mark an exhibit.

THE COURT: You are here with the Court's permission.

 

 

 
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Q Now, what is the date of exhibit double D?

THE COURT: What we will do is we will put DD, and

then in parenthesis we will put T; DD(T).

MR. FLYNN: It may be just as devastating, Your Honor.

Q What is the date of double D, Mr. Armstrong?

A 11 February, 1980.

Q Now do recall when you sent your dispatch to

Mr. Hubbard?

A Yes.

Q And did you put a routing formula on the dispatch

that you sent?

A Yes.

Q And what was it?

A It would have been through Laurel to the

messenger on duty to R.

Q And when you say "Laurel", it would have had her

post title?

A Yes, Senior Pers Bureau.

Q And was Mrs. Hubbard one of the 11 defendants

in the criminal cases you mentioned?

A Yes.

Q Now, when you received this back, I note the

name Fred Ulan, MC. Who was he?

A Fred Ulan, I believe, was the head of the

Safe Environment Fund. What the "MC" is, I am not sure.

Q Incidentally, do you know what the tickets

were selling for for the showing of this movie?

A No, I don't recall.

 

 

 
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Q Do you know approximately how many people showed

up for the showing of the movie?

A My recollection there was a thousand or more.

Q Do you know whether Laurel Sullivan is aware

of how much the tickets were selling for?

A I don't know.

MR. FLYNN: May I read this into the record, Your

Honor?

THE COURT: Any objection?

MR. HARRIS: Yes.

MR. LITT: We object to reading any of the documents

under seal into the record, and there is no reason to read

it into the record. There is nothing exceptional about it,

but what is the reason for reading it into the record? He has

testified about what he has to nay about it.

MR. HARRIS: The court can read it.

MR. FLYNN: It lays the foundation for his state of

mind for a lot of events that are going to take place over the

next year and a half, Your Honor.

THE COURT: Oh, I will permit the reading. I don't

see anything any different in this and any of the other

communications that we have had here.

MR. FLYNN: Exhibit Double D:

"11 February, '80.

"Committee for a safe environment.

"CC Fred Ulan, MC.

"CC SNR PPRO INT.

"CC: F

 

 

 
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"Re: Dive Bomber.

"You may get a question from the audience

or someone as I don't think my name is on the

sub-titles of credits for story. The reason for

this is that Warner Bros. shot the whole story and

got it in the can before somebody had noticed they

had forgotten to contract with me and pay me for

it. They hastily made up for this omission but

after the film was released.

"There is an amusing anecdote connected

with this: It was just before I was shipped out

for the South Pacific as a naval officer. I

was closing up my New York, Riverside Drive,

posh apartment. The phone rang and the head

of Legal Department of the studio's New York

office announced himself. He was very worried

and stammeringly informed cue that they wanted to see

me down at their office right away. Having my

hands full of gear I was packing, I demanded to

know what it was all about and murder outed. The

studio could have been hit for a $ a foot in

damages. They made me a very reasonable offer

and I said, 'Sure, great, mail the check to the

Explorer's Club,' and he said, 'Well, don't you

want to come down and sign the contract,' and I

said, 'Mail it to the Explorer's Club with the check'

and he said, 'Wouldn't you like to come down

right now and have lunch?' He was feeling very

 

 

 
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expansive and relieved and I said, 'No, just mail

the check and contract to the Explorer's Club,

I'm busy.' And I was and the war lasted for 4 1/2 years.

"When it was over, I used the check to take a

holiday in the Caribbean. And that's the story of

'Dive Bomber'.

"The audience will have the advantage of

me; I've never seen it. They didn't have movies

where I went."

MR. LITT: There was a mistake made in the reading.

The word "it" was just before I shipped out.

MR. FLYNN: I might have included the word "was."

MR. HARRIS: No, you included the word "the.°

I think the best way is for Your Honor to read

it.

THE COURT: Well, it's been read now and I don't want

to read it again.

MR. HARRIS: But I mean in future.

THE COURT: Well, let's deal with it, on a situation-

by-situation basis.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: And for the record it was

signed "L. Ron Hubbard" at the bottom; is that correct,

Mr. Armstrong?

A Yes.

Q Now, whether items of significance in that

communication from Mr. Hubbard that you then pursued in

connection with investigating some of the statements that

were made?

 

 

 
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A Yes, there was a number of points.

Q And what are they?

A I noted here that he had sent the check --

that it was a check and that it had gone to the Explorer's

Club.

An earlier tape which Mr. Hubbard made, I

believe it is called "The Story of Dianetics and Scientology"

or "The History" or something like that, I had a copy of the

transcript at that time and it showed that the amount that

he received was $10,000 in thousand dollar bills and that he

had put it into a safe deposit box.

 

 

 
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Q That is what was said on this tape?

A Right. And that he had used the money to finance

the research for Dianetics.

Additionally, I was struck by the fact that here

he was going on a -- the war was over and he used the check

to take a holiday in the Caribbean.

And my understanding was, from what I had read,

that he was cripled and blinded and studying when he was blind

at that period and that he was broke at the war's end and

was deserted by his family and friends.

So I had on my hands a number of contradictions.

Q Now, subsequent --

Your Honor, at this point we are not going to

try to go through all the records of '45 and '50 which we

have, but we intend to bring out the pertinent ones at a later

time. But in order to keep some continuity in the system

by which we are going to go through the records, I'm going

to leave the records that we are going to use to address this

particular issue, leave that to a later time; just so the

court will know.

THE COURT: All right.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: Did you, however, Mr. Armstrong,

go through all of Mr. Hubbard's records that you could find

for the period after World War II?

A Yes. I went through what I could find right away

to see if I could answer the contradictions.

Then throughout the next almost two years, I went

through a great deal more masses of documents and kept that

 

 

 
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in mind throughout as something which remained unanswered.

Q Now, did you examine Mr. Hubbard's Naval and

Veterans Administration records with respect to his physical

and financial condition after World War II?

A Yes,

Q And what did you find?

A He was claiming throughout the postwar period

to the Veterans Administration that he was broke or penniless.

And he was also claiming throughout that period that he had

various illnesses, particularly an ulcer and diminished

eyesight.

Q Did you find a record in the Naval records in

which he said that he was hospitalized for one year in a

civilian hospital after the war ended?

A Yes.

Q And did you find any records to indicate that

he had ever been hospitalized in a civilian hospital for one

year?

A No.

Q Did you find other Naval records that indicated

that he stated that he had not been hospitalized for one year

in a civilian hospital after the war?

A Yes.

MR. LITT: Can we not have leading questions, Your Honor?

THE COURT: Well, these are leading, counsel.

MR. FLYNN: I'll make them more direct, Your Honor.

Q Did you find any records that indicated that

Mr. Hubbard went on a Caribbean cruise after World War II?

 

 

 
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A There was --

MR. LITT: Your Honor, I am going to object to the form

of the question as another leading question.

He should ask Mr. Armstrong what it is he

discovered in this relationship.

THE COURT: He doesn't have to ask it that way to be

nonleading. The question doesn't indicate he has to give

any particular answer. Either he did or he didn't.

Let's go ahead.

THE WITNESS: There was a story of a ship which was

purchased in 1946. Mr. Hubbard purchased the ship as part

of a corporation or a company called Allied Services or

something along with John W. Parsons and that the money which

went into it was Parsons' money.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: Now, is all the Parsons' material

among the documents under seal?

A Not all of it, but there is a portion of it.

Q Now, were there any records relating to any

Caribbean cruise?

A No.

Q When you say, "a ship," what type of a ship are

you talking about that Mr. Parsons purchased?

A It was a fairly substantial ship. It may have

been 35 feet, maybe a little longer.

 

 

 
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Q A 35-foot sailboat?

A Yes.

Q Okay. Now did that situation with Mr. Parsons

end up in litigation?

A Yes.

Q And are those litigation records under seal?

A Yes.

Q Now were there other records that you found

under seal that indicated Mr. Hubbard's physical condition up

until 1949?

A There is a great number of records on that

subject.

Q Okay. Now after you found that these contradictions

existed, what did you do?

A Well, right at this time or shortly thereafter

Laurel was signed to a mission, a mission which is called

MCCS, Mission Corporate Category Sort-Out, and she was

going to be having extensive dealings with Mr. Hubbard's

attorney, Alan Wertheimer, and his tax attorney at that time,

Jim Murphy, both of whom had offices in Beverly Hills. So

we were at that time in Gilman Hot Springs and it was decided

that it would make more sense if we moved into Los Angeles.

Laurel was to move. I was at some point asked

to be her second on the mission. There was a mission in

charge, and if there is more mission personnel, they are

designated second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth et cetera,

and I was to be the mission second.

Q And this was what they called the MCCS mission?

 

 

 
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A Right.

In addition, all the top personnel of the

CMO at that point also moved into Los Angeles, and they moved

all the international management personnel from Gilman Hot

Springs into Los Angeles, so it made more sense because we

would be dealing with those personnel and dealing with

attorneys to move into Los Angeles. So I moved at that point

along with Laurel, and I moved in all the materials which

were from archives, the archives which I was establishing at

that point. I principally had only the materials from

Del Sol, so I moved into Los Angeles.

Q And the purpose of the move was because of the

MCCS Mission?

A Right.

Q Now, did the MCCS Mission become inter-related

to the biography project over the next year and a half?

A Yes.

Q And did it become an integral part of the

biography project?

A Well they were connected. I wouldn't say that

MCCS was a part of the biography project. Maybe the biography

project was part of MCCS.

MCCS dealt with a number of subjects, one of

which was the biography contract and the biography project.

Q Now, what was the purpose of the MCCS Mission?

MR. HARRIS: I will object, Your Honor; no foundation

THE COURT: Well if you know.

THE WITNESS: The purpose of the MCCS Mission was to

 

 

 
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allow or set up the legal procedures or steps or mechanisms

by which Mr. Hubbard could retain control but not be responsible

for the organization.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: How do you know that, Mr. Armstrong?

A Because I was involved in the initial briefing

and in the correspondence from Mr. Hubbard which were given

to Laurel and myself at the outset.

I also was involved in a number of meetings,

discussions with Laurel Sullivan and similar discussions

with Alan Wertheimer.

MR. HARRIS: Your Honor, at this point I will move to

strike as a conclusion of the witness based upon hearsay,

or if not, attorney-privileged communication which he is

disclosing at this point.

The MCCS Mission, the subject of the corporate

sort-out, involved many attorneys and involved church personnel

who were in liaison with such attorneys in respect to church

matters and sorting out corporate church matters as well as

the relationship of the founders of the church, and on that

basis I'd move to exclude any further testimony in respect

to that.

MR. LITT: Furthermore, Your Honor, the church can

provide documents that show what the purpose of this is.

This implication -- there is no foundation for his statement

statement of what he recalls.

If the court wants, we can provide in camera to

the court whatever documents are necessary to show that this

whole activity was directed by attorneys for the purpose of

 

 

 
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determining the various inter-relationships between a number

of different church organizations and the founder of

Scientology.

This whole subject matter is wrong. The

characterization that has been given, there is no foundation

for. It is inaccurate and it cannot be used as an

excuse to not begin to probe into this area.

We are very concerned about this question.

We are prepared to provide the court whatever materials are

needed. We are prepared to bring the attorneys involved.

We have some memoranda which can be submitted

to the court by this afternoon on this area, and we just

don't think it can be gotten into. This is just improper.

Everything that was done on this mission, this was a mission

to regain attorneys, gather facts for attorneys, provide those

facts to attorneys, get advice from those attorneys about

how to solve a variety of problems concerning these inter-

relationships.

This man was an employee of the church at the

time when all of this occurred, and to the extent he has any

such knowledge, he may not divulge it. He may not characterize

it.

MR. FLYNN: If I could be heard, Your Honor.

THE COURT: All right.

MR. FLYNN: At this point, I have in my preparation

of the examination restricted it to the briefing with

Laurel Sullivan which was just described to the court laying

a foundation for what is going to become readily apparent to

 

 

 
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be a very important issue in this lawsuit for the following

reasons:

The MCCS Mission worked together with the

biography project because the biography project in the

collection of the documentation, particularly documents

relating to the Hubbard Explorational Company Operation

Transport Corporation, OTS, and a corporation called

Religious Research Foundation, all of which documents or

most of which documents Mr. Armstrong collected, basically

revealed that from --

MR. LITT: Your Honor --

THE COURT: Let counsel finish.

MR. LITT: Your Honor, I am afraid -- if we can have

an in-camera thing on this. This has happened before. He

cannot refer to contents of any privileged conversations.

MR. FLYNN: I won't, Your Honor.

MR. LITT: Okay.

MR. FLYNN: I won't refer to any privileged communications.

The sealed documents in part, together with

the other 98 percent of documents that are in the Armstrong

Archives which are not here, basically reveal that throughout

the period of time that Mr. Armstrong was working for

Mr. Hubbard, as he has testified to, and he believed that

Mr. Hubbard was only making $35,000 per year from the church,

as he has testified to, and as he testified was represented

to everyone -- everyone that he knew have related to the

Church of Scientology.

 

 

 
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The documents basically reveal that over

$200,000,000 was paid to Mr. Hubbard from church funds through

Hubbard Explorational Company initially at 15,000 pounds per

week set forth in the documents under seal; then to the

Operation Transport Corporation; then beginning in 1972, to

a corporation called Religious Research Foundation. And the

funds were transferred into Swiss bank accounts initially

and then later on into Liechtenstein bank accounts.

Mr. Armstrong, together with Miss Sullivan during

the period of time that they were sorting all of this out,

basically realized that every Scientologist including

themselves, had been grossly misrepresented to relative to

the facts of L. Ron Hubbard's control over the Scientology

organization, L. Ron Hubbard's participation in these profit-

making corporations which received monies from Scientology

organizations and whether or not L. Ron Hubbard had even been

receiving funds from Scientology organizations aside from

the issue of control.

The individuals like Mr. Armstrong, for a period

of ten years, worked at $4.20 per week, 100 hours per week

on personal services of L. Ron Hubbard such as renovating

his homes and collecting his documents and --

There will be extensive testimony about the

biography contract with regard to what Mr. Hubbard was going

to get for it. In fact, hundreds of millions of dollars have

been transferred to Hubbard in the liechtenstein bank

accounts.

What happens is the following: the purpose of

 

 

 
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the MCCS Mission, which Mr. Armstrong initially learned about

in conversations with Laurel Sullivan, completely shifted

in midstream to conceal what I just told the court.

Two of the tapes that are under seal --

THE COURT: We are not going to talk about what is on

the tapes.

MR. FLYNN: -- relate to that subject.

So we are in a position of knowing the individuals

involved who were involved in the intentional future

concealment, the concealment in the future of the facts that

have just been taking place over the last ten years and facts

that relate to the biography project.

Mr. Garrison, Miss Sullivan, and Mr. Armstrong

discover all of these facts, the tapes and the later activities

of MCCS -- and we have a memorandum already prepared on the

subject -- go to the future concealment of the past fraud.

THE COURT: Well, of course, this is going a little

bit beyond the particular subject we were talking about here.

And it seems to me that at this stage of the proceedings I

don't really see that there is anything that involves any

attorney-client privilege.

He was asked about what he had been briefed on.

I can't see how he was briefed on -- assuming it was

from somebody else within the Scientology group or the Sea

Organization or whatever, could be attorney-client privileged.

And it may be that you'll get to something that might be

privileged, but we haven't got to that yet.

When the time comes, you can make an objection.

 

 

 
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The fact that there may be something written down

doesn't mean that the other side is bound by it. The fact

that the plaintiff may have something in writing which

purports to indicate one thing does not mean that the defense

is bound by it. The other evidence which the defendant has

to produce which can contradict it, present it in conflict,

we have to deal with that as we go along.

I don't remember what the last question was, but

clearly, he can testify as to what he was briefed upon.

MR. HARRIS: If he was briefed, as he claims as MCCS

second, that is, the second person in charge of this mission

which was to sort out all of the corporation relationships

and so on, in respect to the attorneys and their advice --

THE COURT: We haven't got to that yet.

MR. HARRIS: He has also conclusorily stated what the

purpose was.

THE COURT: If he was told what the purpose was, he

is certainly entitled to testify to that. He wasn't told

by some attorney, I presume.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: Mr. Armstrong, the testimony you

just gave about the briefings that you received regarding

the MCCS Mission, who did you receive that briefing from?

A The initial briefing was by Laurel.

Q Was there any attorney present in that initial

briefing?

A No. We -- for the first few days, there was

Laurel, myself, and another man by the name of Rick Klingler,

joined MCCS at that time.

 

 

 
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After the first -- after we moved to Los Angeles,

then began a series of meetings with Alan Wertheimer. And

during some of those meetings another attorney, Jim Murphy,

was present

Q Just yes or no; did some of those meetings relate

to MCCS with Mr. Wertheimer and some relate to the biography

project?

A Initially all of then related to MCCS.

When the -- we proceeded in the biography project,

then Mr. Wertheimer became very involved in that as well.

Q All right. Now, leaving that subject there for

the moment, after you learned of the contradictions in respect

to the Dive Bomber presentation, you indicated to Laurel

Sullivan what those contradictions were; is that your

testimony?

A Yes. I told Laurel at that time what I had come

up with.

Laurel was not very willing to accept my

information and she believed that what Mr. Hubbard had said

in the letter was true. And she in fact read that letter

at the showing of the film Dive Bomber.

 

 

 
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Q And was the movie shown?

A Yes.

Q And thousands of people attended.

MR. HARRIS: Your Honor, that misstates --

THE COURT: He said a thousand. I don't know about

thousands.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: Do you know how many people

attended?

MR. HARRIS: Objection. Asked and answered.

THE COURT: Sustained.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: Do you know whether or not the

people who attended paid money?

A Yes. It was advertised and there was an admission,

the purpose of which was to raise money for the Safe

Environment Fund.

Q Now, when you found these contradictions, what

was your state of mind at the time with respect to your duties

and the biography project when you found those contradictions?

A Well, I -- at that time and thereafter, for a

long time I remained convinced that the man would not lie

and that there was some other explanation for the

contradictions. I could not resolve them in my mind at the

time and they remained as contradictions, but that didn't

sway me as far as my dedication to the project and in trying

to get to what the real facts were.

Q Now, approximately when did you move to Los Angeles

from the Gilman Hot Springs property?

A My recollection, it was -- would have been

 

 

 
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somewhere in the last week of february.

Q Of 1980?

A Yes.

Q Now, at that time did you and Laurel Sullivan

have discussions relative to appraising the contents of the

archives that you had found?

A No. The idea of the appraisal came sometime

later. that would have been perhaps in the summer, late

spring, summer, of that year.

Q And what occurred in connection with the appraisal?

A The idea was originated that these things -- when

I say "these things," we are talking about the Hubbard

originals and the Hubbard archives together with the controller

archives; at that time were noted by the L.R.H. accounts who

at that time was Mike Smith as having an immense amount of

value.

His function or the statistics of the L.R.H.

accounts post was income to L.R.H., L. Ron Hubbard.

And one of the plans that he devised was the

possibility of the establishment of a trust. And the

intricacies of that thing, I don't know. But one of the

purposes of it was to have Mr. Hubbard donate these things

into a trust of some sort and be able to take the value as

a tax write off of some description.

There was a program which was written by Mike

Smith at that time. And it has been referred to in some of

the documents which have been produced in this case, I believe

particularly something from Tom Vorm here. He refers to the

 

 

 
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R accounts, the R originals program. And that was originated

by Mike Smith.

Mike Smith at that time was thinking particularly

of the controller archives.

But when I discovered the Del Sol Archives, then

those were also included in the overall plan.

Sometime around that period Mike Smith left.

He left suddenly. And Jim Isaacson took over the L.R.H.

accounts.

For my part in that, I had Virgil Wilhite, who

was a collector come in and with his professional expertise,

appraise the documents which I then had in my possession.

And he was to come up with a figure which was then given to

Mr. Hubbard's tax attorney, Jim Murphy.

Then came back another order that Mr. Wilhite

was to come up with two figures; one was a maximum; one was

a minimum. And this had some bearing, apparently, on the

way that the documents were ultimately going to be used in

a -- for the establishment of an archives trust.

The subject of an archives trust came up a number

of times during that period. It involved both myself and

involved MCCS personnel.

I also mentioned the archives trust in

communications to Mary Sue. So she was also aware of the

plan at that point for the establishment of it.

One of the purposes was, of course, to gain

income for Mr. Hubbard.

Q When Mr. Wilhite did this appraisal, was it in

 

 

 
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the summer of 1980?

A Yes,

Q And that was before you sent the letter of

October 15, 1980 to Mary Sue Hubbard; is that correct?

A Yes.

Q Now, at some point in time you had collected

approximately 22 boxes from the Del Sol Hotel?

A Yes.

Q Approximately how many documents were shredded

from the Del Sol Hotel during the shredding in January, 1980?

MR. LITT: From the Del Sol Hotel?

MR. FLYNN: I'll withdraw that.

Q Approximately how many documents that were

shredded in January, 1980 in the shredding project came from

the Del Sol Hotel, if you recall?

A I couldn't give you a very accurate figure, but

there was a great deal of material which came from there which

was shredded.

Q Would the number be in the thousands?

A Yes.

Q Now, were there documents shredded from the upper

floor of the Del Sol Hotel?

A Yes.

 

 

 
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Q And approximately what percent of the documents

that are presently under seal were headed for the shredder

when you rescued them, Mr. Armstrong?

MR. LITT: Objection. The characterization of "rescued."

He's testified what he did. Rescue is argument at best.

THE COURT: I suppose so, but it is in the eyes of

the beholder.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: Aproximately what percentage of

the documents that are presently under seal were brought to

you to determine whether they should be shredded?

A Probably a very small percentage.

Q And what is your best memory as to what

percentage it is?

A I couldn't say. If you include the total amount

which would have -- if we had allowed the first box to be

shredded --

MR. LITT: Objection; this is not responsive.

THE COURT: Well he is getting up to an answer.

THE WITNESS: Yes, I am trying to give you a percentage.

Then the other boxes would have followed suit,

the other boxes which were in Del Sol at the time, so I would

say 50 percent of the documents under seal come from the

Del Sol materials which potentially all could have been

shredded during that shredding campaign.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: And under the criteria that was

established should they have been shredded?

MR. LITT: Objection; this has been asked and answered

and is a conclusion.

 

 

 
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THE COURT: I will sustain the objection.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: Now, during the period of time

in the summer of 1980 when Mr. Wilhite was appraising the

documents that you had collected, did you become concerned

about the fact that documents were being lost, shredded or

destroyed from sources other than Del Sol that you had not

yet reached in connection with your duties?

A Yes.

Q And in what way did you become concerned,

Mr. Armstrong?

A Well, I had at that point gone to Clearwater

and some time in May of 1980 I had seen materials at

Clearwater, I knew that -- I talked to John McGinley who was

in the LRH Pers Com Flag. He informed me that B-1 personnel

had gone through the Pers Com files and had taken out

anything which they considered sensitive at that time.

I also knew that he had taken the totality of

the Pers Com files out of the organization offices and had

them hidden off the property in a cleaning closet in one of

the buildings which was used for housing and berthing by

organization personnel.

I had by that time gone through the basement of

the building known as ASHO, American Saint Hill Organization,

and had discovered materials down there which was very early

Dianetics--Scientology materials which were being destroyed,

and just from those sources alone by the summer, I knew that

there was a problem.

In August I traveled up the coast and visited

 

 

 
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the Seattle organization and the Portland organization and

met with a number of early Dianetics and Dianeticists and

Scientologists and determined that in those locations there

were materials which were not being cared for.

So I thought it as a problem of some magnitude

at that point.

Q And did you learn that materials had been left

at the LA organization in an area which flooded really

and those materials had been completely ruined?

A Yes, those are the ones that I am referring to.

I went to the L.A. organization and those materials were

being destroyed.

MR. LITT: Destroyed or ruined?

THE COURT: You can cross-examine later.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: Ruined, Mr. Armstrong?

A Yes, ruined.

Q And you learned at that period of time that

documents pursuant to these shredding procedures were being

destroyed throughout the United States; is that correct?

A I knew of that from 1977 because I was

involved even in 1977 on the destruction of, you know, what

could have been records of what I considered then historical

significance.

Q And prior to your undertaking the duties that

you are undertook in collecting the documents, to your

knowledge was there any organized efforts by Mr. Hubbard

or anyone else in the Scientology organization to prevent

the destruction of documents of historical interest?

 

 

 
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A I think that Mr. Vorm had also around that

period, probably in part because of communications with me

because I was trveling around a great deal and finding

these materials, he also became aware of the problem and

within his organization sought to bring the problem to light

and take steps to correct it.

Q Now in your correspondence of October 15, 1980

which, for the record, is exhibit J, of seven pages in

length, did you communicate these problems of destruction

or ruination of materials to Mrs. Hubbard?

A Yes.

MR. HARRIS: Well, to the extent that the words "To

Mrs. Hubbard" are in there, Your Honor, the document speaks

for itself and is now in evidence. There has been testimony

that she didn't receive it. He communicated in a letter.

THE COURT: All right. Should be more specific, I

suppose.

It was communicated in this communication;

is that right?

THE WITNESS: Yes, Your Honor.

THE COURT: All right.

Ask the next question.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: And you sent that to the controller?

A Yes.

Q And the controller at that time was who?

A Mary Sue Hubbard.

Q Now did you find, you mentioned the Pers Com Flag

files, did that same situation exist with other sources

 

 

 
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that you were sending materials from; namely, the destruction

or ruination of materials?

A Well, the one that comes to mind is, and I

may have mentioned it, GO PRWW where they were being

totally uncared for and a lot of the materials which I went

through were mildewed in the building in which they were

housed in St. Hill.

 

 

 
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Q To your knowledge prior to your collection

of these documents in one place, had a complete collection

attempt ever been made together with an appraisal of the

documents collected in that process?

MR. LITT: Collection attempts of what?

MR. FLYNN: Of the biographical materials of L. Ron

Hubbard.

MR. HARRIS: That is a compound question, Your Honor.

MR. FLYNN: I'll withdraw it, Your Honor.

THE COURT: Very well.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: Do you know whether an appraisal

had ever been done before of Mr. Hubbard's biographical

materials?

A I don't know of any.

Q In your initial petition to Mr. Hubbard did you

recite that this is basically what needed to be done; that

the materials all needed to be collected for his benefit?

A Yes.

MR. LITT: Objection. The document speaks for iself.

BY MR. FLYNN: With regard to --

THE COURT: The document says, "...one of the historians

of the company."

What are the historians of the company?

THE WITNESS: That was -- the historians of the company

were to be the people who collected up the -- what they call

the PR archives at WW.

There was -- there had been something written

on that subject. And I took that -- the note "historians

 

 

 
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of the company" from whatever documents I had referred to,

THE COURT: All right. You may continue, counsel,

Q BY MR. FLYNN: Did you meet anyone who fell into

the category of being an historian of the company?

A I guess I was possibly the closest thing to it.

Q Now, prior to the discussions of the contract

with Omar Garrison and PDK, did you conduct interviews with

people relating to the biography project?

A Yes.

Q And who did you interview?

A This is up to the point of meeting Omar Garrison;

is that correct?

Q Prior to the contract being executed.

A Okay. I had met a number of people in Seattle

and Portland areas who were early Dianeticists.

I had met Mr. Hubbard's cousin who lived in

Bremerton, Washington.

I met two of his cousins at that point.

I met another cousin in Bellingham, Washington

and his living aunt in Bellingham, Washington.

I interviewed an old woman who had lived beside

him in Port Orchard, Washington and another couple of people

who knew little bits of information up in the Port Orchard

area.

There was a person who worked with me, Francis

Schier was his name; he was just sort of a volunteer. And

he interviewed a number of people throughout that period.

Those were people who were principally at that time working

 

 

 
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in one or another Scientology organization.

Q Now, what was your understanding as to where the

money came from to finance those trips, Mr. Armstrong?

A From -- all of it ultimately came, I believe,

from Sea Org reserves.

Q What is Sea Org reserves?

A Sea Org reserves is the money which is collected

by the sea Organization from other organizations or from their

own organizations which is over and above operating expenses

and which is put into reserve bank accounts.

Q And did you know where the bank accounts were

located for Sea Org reserves in 1980 and '81?

A I can't say for sure. I was told Luxemborg at

that point.

MR. LITT: I object to what he was told.

THE COURT: By whom were you told?

THE WITNESS: By Laurel Sullivan, Your Honor. And in

communications with finance personnel, someone by the name

of Tinglenberg.

THE COURT: People in the Sea Org?

THE WITNESS: Yes.

THE COURT: I'll deny the motion.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: Do you know an individual named

Bill Franks?

A Yes.

Q In 1980, '81 what was his position?

A Throughout at least some of that period he was

called the executive director international.

 

 

 
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Q And what is that post, Mr. Armstrong?

A That was the post which was originally held by

Mr. Hubbard up until he supposedly resigned in 1966. And

the post was recreated and Mr. Franks assumed that post

sometime, I believe, in 1980 or 1981.

It was to be the supreme head of all of

Scientology.

Q Now, did the post of executive director

international have superior authority to the post of

controller?

A That was my understanding of it at that time.

Q Prior to the creation of the post or placing

Mr. Franks in the post of executive director international,

did you have any understanding that there was any higher

authority above the post of controller other than what actual

authority Mr. Hubbard exercised?

A Under Mr. Hubbard and under the messengers who

acted for Mr. Hubbard, the controller was the top post.

 

 

 
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Q Now, at some point in time was there a group

called the Watchdog Committee that came into existence?

A Yes.

Q And what is the Watchdog Committee?

A The Watchdog Committee was a group of senior

messengers who as a committee oversaw and managed all

Scientology and other activities within the complete network

of Scientology related activities.

Q And who did they answer to?

A Mr. Hubbard.

MR. HARRIS: Excuse me, Your Honor. I will move to

strike that as a conclusion of the witness unless he was

there.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: Did you have the opportunity in

1979 to 1981 to observe the activities of the Watchdog

Committee?

A I never saw them meet directly as a committee.

Maybe I saw them when I walked into their office once or

twice, but never to actually observe them acting as a

committee.

Q Did you see orders that emanated from them as

a committee?

A Yes.

Q How many such orders?

A Oh, boy, I really don't know, probably 20 or

30.

Q And do you know whether Mr. Franks had any

supervisory control or authority over Sea Org reserves in

 

 

 
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1980 or 1981?

A I don't know that.

Q Do you know whether Mr. Franks signed an undated

resignation in advance of assuming his position as

executive director international in 1980-1981?

MR. HARRIS: Your Honor, he could only know by hearsay

unless he is present. Could we please have a foundation?

THE COURT: Well, if you have personal knowledge that

you have seen something like this, you may answer. If you

don't, you could so state.

THE WITNESS: I haven't seen such a thing.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: Do you know what the practice

was with regard to officers and directors of corporations of

Scientology between 1970 and 1981 with regard to resignations,

Mr. Armstrong?

MR. HARRIS: Same objection. He's already testified,

I think, Your Honor, that he wasn't an officer or a director

of any such organizations?

THE COURT: Well it is conceivable he might have

personal knowledge. If you have personal knowledge, you can

tell us. If you don't, you can so state.

THE WITNESS: I don't have any, personal knowledge.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: When you collected the documents

under seal, did you find records relating to undated letters

of resignation?

A Yes.

Q For what corporations, Mr. Armstrong?

A For various Scientology corporations.

 

 

 
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Q And when you were collecting the documents

under seal, did you make inquiries as to what the practice

was of Scientology organizations with respect to having

undated letters of resignation signed by officers and directors

of Scientology corporations?

A No. By the time I came across these things,

I was already aware of such a practice and so I understood

what it was at that time.

Q And where did you ---

MR. HARRIS: May everything be stricken after "No"

as nonresponsive to the question, Your Honor?

THE COURT: Well, if I did, that would be the next

question so I will let it stand.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: How did you become aware,

Mr. Armstrong?

THE COURT: Of the practice.

THE WITNESS: Yes, Your Honor.

I had had communications with various people

throughout that period. I had been involved in the OTS,

the back-dating procedure and in dealing with Kima Douglas

who was then the legal officer what was called the Flag

Bureau at that time. I had discussions with her regarding

the possession of undated resignations and the holding of

them.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: Do you know where Kima Douglas

was an officer or director of any Scientology organizations?

A I don't know.

Q Do you know of any other individuals who were

 

 

 
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officers or directors of Scientology organizations?

A I have known several throughout the years.

Q And who are they?

A Sue Pomeroy, Jimmie Mulligan, Bill Fosdick.

Those are the names that I recall right now.

Q Do you recall whether Bill Franks was?

A Well he was the ED International, so I would

assume that is an officer at least.

MR. LITT: Objection.

THE COURT: All right, what he would assume would be

stricken.

We will take a 15 minute break.

(Recess.)

 

 

 
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THE COURT: In the case on trial let the record reflect

that counsel are present; the witness has retaken the stand.

Just state your name again for the record, sir.

You are still under oath.

THE WITNESS: Gerald Armstrong.

THE COURT: Mr. Flynn, you may continue.

MR. FLYNN: Thank you, Your Honor.

Q Mr. Armstrong, prior to the contract being entered

into between PDK and Omar Garrison, did you participate in

negotiations relative to that contract between Omar Garrison,

yourself, and Laurel Sullivan?

A Yes.

Q And when was that?

A We had a number of discussions between the time

that he arrived back from Europe -- which would sometime in

October -- up to the point of his arrival in Los Angeles

which would be sometime in late October.

Q Now, you mentioned Europe; had you met him over

in Europe?

A Yes.

Q When was that?

A In September, 1980.

Q And what was the purpose of your meeting him in

Europe?

A It was to sell him on the idea of undertaking

the writing of the biography.

Q And whose idea was it to try to have Mr. Garrison

write the biography?

 

 

 
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A I think there were a number of people who were

involved in that decision.

I corresponded with Shelia Gaiman for a couple

of months and a number of times prior to actually going to

England to meet Mr. Garrison.

I was in favor of it; I had the memo from

Mr. Hubbard from 1977 where he had basically approved of

Mr. Garrison's work points in which he had created a -- not

on the line of the book so much as a method or a style of

writing it.

Q Now, when you say "work points," are you referring

to what I think has been marked in two places as exhibit I

for the defense?

Your Honor, I think it was attached to the contract

by Mr. Litt.

MR. LITT: We just used what was already there; so it

is exhibit I and it is attached, I think, to exhibit G.

THE COURT: I remember.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: Exhibit I is dated March 16, 1977;

is that correct?

A Yes.

Q To your knowledge what role had Mr. Garrison

played prior to the time that you became involved with him

in connection with the biography?

A The only thing that I know about that he had done

relating to the biography was to write what he called his

work points.

He did that not in anticipation of himself doing

 

 

 
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the biography, but just as an idea on how it could be

approached.

 

 

 
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Q And do you know who asked him to do that?

A I don't know.

Q Do you know the circumstances under which

exhibit I was created?

MR. LITT: Is this personal knowledge that is being

asked for, Your Honor?

THE WITNESS: I don't have any personal knowledge of

it, only what I have been told.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: Well, when the contract was

created, did exhibit I come into your possession?

A I had exhibit I prior to the creation of the

contract. Exhibit I, both parts of it existed in the PR

Bureau files at that time.

Q Had you found that when you were collecting

documents on the biography?

A Yes.

Q Now, did you notice in exhibit I there is a

letter from Mr. Hubbard regarding the biographical work points;

is that correct?

A Yes.

Q And did you know in there Mr. Hubbard records

that his own records were stolen in 1953 relative to his

personal records that existed prior to 1953?

A Yes.

Q And did you find that to be true?

A No.

Q And, in fact, you found his records in the

Del Sol; is that correct?

 

 

 
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A Yes.

Q Now when you met with Mr. Garrison, did you have

any discussion with him prior to entering into the contract

about the fact that the internal records of Mr. Hubbard prior

to 1953 did exist?

A Yes.

Q And what did you tell him?

A I told him in considerable detail what I had

found and the conditions under which they were found, and I

provided him at that point with a copy of the Virgil Wilhite

inventory. Wilhite by that point had done a rough inventory

of the documents which I had located in Del Solt and I took

off the monetary amounts from the copy that I made and provided

that to Mr. Garrison along with explaining to him what the

mass of the materials was and roughly the contents or

description of the -- what types of materials they were.

Q Now, did you have any discussion with

Mr. Garrison about the fact that he would not undertake the

biography contract unless these materials were given to him?

A That was my understanding right from the

start. It was a point which he demanded.

Q Namely, access to these personal materials?

A That is right.

Q Now after meeting with Mr. Garrison in England,

when did you see him again?

A Right around the time of the biography contract

negotiations.

Q And when was that, Mr. Armstrong?

 

 

 
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A Probably a few days prior to the actual signing.

Might have been the 28th of October.

Q And who was present at that time?

A Laurel and I and Mr. Garrison.

Q Was there an attorney present who represented

Mr. Garrison?

A No.

Q Did he represent himself?

A Yes.

Q Was there an attorney present representing

Mrs. Hubbard?

A No.

Q Was there an attorney present representing

Mr. Hubbard?

A No.

Q Was there any attorney present?

A No.

Q And what was said in that meeting?

A Laurel showed him -- we both showed him the

space which had at that point been renovated for him and

which -- and he was shown primarily by Laurel the files of

archives which I had which were to be made available to him.

That was principally it at that point. It was another selling

point.

We sort of had arrived at the conclusion at

that point that he would do it. He had agreed to do it.

The final points of the contract had to be worked out so that

they were agreeable to him, but he was at that point willing

 

 

 
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to go ahead.

Q Now were you present at any meetings when the

final points of the contract were worked out?

A No, aside from -- no, I really wasn't.

Q And were you present when the contract was

signed?

A Yes.

Q And who was present then?

A Laurel, myself, Omar, Larry Brennan. I believe

also Alan Wertheimer was there. At least for the finalization,

if not for the signing of it.

Q Going back to the prior meeting had you had any

conversations with Mr. Garrison about who was representing

Mr. Hubbard, particularly in connection with who Mr. Garrison

would deal with from the Church of Scientology?

A Well right at the outset I told him that I

represented Mr. Hubbard, that Laurel represented Mr. Hubbard,

and that we would be the people that he would be working with.

He was quite adamant that he would not work

with what he considered church personnel. He stated that he

had run into some difficulties in doing the prior book

"Playing Dirty" and that for that reason, that reason he would

not or did not wish to deal with them.

 

 

 
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He was insistent on dealing with Mr. Hubbard's

representatives.

Q And was always understood by you when you dealt

with Mr. Garrison that you were dealing with him as

Mr. Hubbard's representative?

A Yes.

Q When the contract was signed did you and Laurel

Sullivan represent the interests of Mr. Hubbard?

A Yes.

Q And whose interests did Mr. Wertheimer represent?

A Mr. Hubbard.

Q Who did Mr. Brennan represent?

A The publisher, AOSH DK.

Q Was there an attorney there present who was

representing Mr. Garrison?

A No.

Q Was there any discussion relative to -- as at

the meeting when the contract was signed or at a prior

meeting -- relative to what, if any, control Mr. Hubbard would

have over the biography project?

A Yes. The whole thing was actually under his

control. And the final approval of the biography was to be

his.

Q Was there any discussion relative to monies that

he would receive as income from the biography project?

A That was discussed at some length, principally

between Laurel and myself.

Q What was that discussion?

 

 

 
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A Well, she asked me to make a number of grids which

would reflect the amount of income to Mr. Hubbard and to

Mr. Garrison, given different percentages and different

royalties and given different numbers of books sold and at

different prices. And these, I did at her request.

Q Were these basically financial projections of

what the earnings would be?

A Right.

Q What was your projection for Mr. Hubbard?

A Well, there were various of them. It depended

on the amounts of books sold.

We were talking about -- they ran between 200,000,

500,000, and over a million.

Q Now, were there discussions relative to the values

of the materials collected, aside from income from the book,

the biography itself?

A These were at different times, but there were

discussions on that subject.

Q And were values placed in these discussions on

the materials collected by you?

A Here we are talking about the materials I had

located in Del Sol and that sort of --

Q All of the materials that were going to be

collected for the biography project that belonged to

Mr. Hubbard?

A Yes. We had discussions on that.

Q And what values were discussed for those materials?

MR. HARRIS: I'm not sure I know the referent "we,"

 

 

 
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Your Honor, as to who was present during these discussions.

BY MR. FLYNN: How many discussions were there,

Mr. Armstrong, relative to the value of the materials

collected?

A Probably ten.

Q And who was present in these meetings?

A They were principally between Laurel and myself.

Later there were conversations with the -- with

Mr. Hubbard's attorney Alan Wertheimer and other discussions

with another attorney, Jim Murphy.

We also discussed it, Laurel and I, discussed

it with Virgil Wilhite. And we discussed how to pay Virgil

for his professional services.

Q With regard to discussions between you and Laurel

were you acting as Mr. Hubbard's representatives at that time?

A Yes.

Q And what values were placed on the materials when

you and Laurel had the discussions as Mr. Hubbard's

representatives?

A The value placed, rough value, as I recall, placed

on the materials which I had at that time -- and this was

in the summer of 1980; so I had at that time only accumulated

a portion of what I finally ended up with.

I believe the total came to $5 million as appraised

by Mr. Wilhite.

Q Now, was there value placed on the controller

archives that were under Mr. Vorm with respect to technical

items?

 

 

 
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A To my knowledge, a full appraisal was not done.

I made arrangements to get Mr. Wilhite access

to the controller archives. And I was successful in doing

that. I don't recall the reason that it was not done at that

time. Perhaps it was because Mr. Wilhite moved away for a

period of time.

We tossed around figures, given the amount of

volume that Mr. Vorm said was there.

Mr. Vorm and Mr. Wilhite and I met and discussed

it a number of times.

Q And what were the figures that were mentioned?

A $50 million.

Q Now, when these meetings took place between you,

Mr. Vorm, and Mr. Wilhite, were you acting as Mr. Hubbard's

representative?

A Yes.

Q Who was Mr. Wilhite acting on behalf of?

A Mr. Wilhite was paid by Hr. Hubbard's accounts

personnel to do the initial appraisal of the materials which

I had.

He was also to be paid for the final appraisal.

A distinct differentiation had to made regarding

who paid Mr. Wilhite because -- so that no future problem

would be run into.

I would assume, then -- here is an assumption --

that given --

MR. FLYNN: Don't give us that.

You mentioned future problems; were there

 

 

 
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continuing discussions between you and Laurel Sullivan about

who you worked for with respect to the biography project and

legal problems that could result therefrom for Mr. Hubbard?

A We discussed that subject a number of times.

Q What were those discussions?

A In that the biography was going to be making a

great deal of profit for Mr. Hubbard, in that I was working

with his personal archives, it would not be possible for me

to continue to be paid by Sea Org, but I was to be paid

directly by Mr. Hubbard a standard wage. And the reason for

that was so that we would not run into an inurement problem

sometime later.

Q Now, with regard to this standard wage, was it

your understanding at that point in time that it was always

Mr. Hubbard who controlled all aspects of your employment?

A Yes.

Q And when these issues were being discussed did

you understand them to be discussed in the context of legal

problems that were then related to the MCCS Mission?

A Yes.

Q And did an attorney participate in those

discussions?

A An attorney did not participate in the discussions

that I had directed with Laurel. But there were similar

discussions with an attorney during that period.

Q And was that Alan Wertheimer?

A Yes.

Q To your knowledge were there discussions between --

 

 

 
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were these communications between Mr. Wertheimer and Larry

Brennan of PUBS DK relative to some of these problems?

A Did you say discussions?

Q Communications.

A Yes, there were.

Q And the problems being specifically who owned

the archives; was that one of the issues, Mr. Armstrong?

A I don't know if it was addressed as an issue in

which there was any dispute. I think it was assumed.

It was definitely a part of the correspondence

between them.

Q And with regard to your job in collecting the

materials, was that a part of the correspondence between

them?

A Yes.

Q Now, have you seen that correspondence?

A Yes at least some of it. Yes.

Q Under what circumstances was it given to you?

A It was given to me by Laurel who received it

from Mr. Wertheimer.

Q And at that time was she acting as Mr. Hubbard's

representative?

A Yes.

Q And were you acting as Mr. Hubbard's

representative?

A Yes.

Q And was the correspondence given to Omar Garrison?

A Yes.

 

 

 
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Q Now, let me show you a letter -- I believe you

already have that -- dated November 17, 1980.

When the contract was signed was it Mr. Garrison's

understanding, based on the meetings you had with him,

Laurel Sullivan, and Alan Wertheimer that L. Ron Hubbard was

going to get 50 percent of the royalties of the biography?

 

 

 
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MR. LITT: Wait, was it whose understanding?

MR. FLYNN: Was it the witness's?

MR. HARRIS: Excuse me --

THE COURT: I think you asked whether it was

Mr. Garrison's understanding.

MR. FLYNN: I will withdraw it, Your Honor.

Q Was it your understanding, Mr. Armstrong, that

Mr. Garrison was going to get 50 percent of the royalties

and Mr. Hubbard was going to get 50 percent of the royalties?

A Yes.

MR. FLYNN: May this be marked as next in order,

Your Honor?

THE COURT: Double E.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: Do you know who hired

Alan Wertheimer, retained him?

A Only what I have been told.

Q Who told you?

A Laurel.

Q Now directing your attention to sub-paragraph,

or paragraph 3, did you see that correspondence at the time,

Mr. Armstrong, that it was prepared or shortly thereafter?

A Yes.

Q And did that comport with your understanding

that the records that you were collecting were the personal

records of L. Ron Hubbard and did not belong to any

Scientology organization?

A Yes.

Q And, in fact, Mr. Wertheimer so stated; is that

 

 

 
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correct?

MR. HARRIS: Well that is a conclusion, Your Honor.

THE COURT: All right. I will sustain the objection.

The letter speaks for itself.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: Now, was it your understanding

that the materials you were collecting were coming from his

personal files and that was also understood by Mr. Wertheimer,

Mr. Hubbard's lawyer?

MR. HARRIS: Objection; compound.

THE COURT: Sustained.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: Now, there is a reference on the

second page who was salaries paid by Mr. Hubbard in out of

pocket expenses in connection with the collection and

compilation of the personal records and the biographical

materials; do you see that, Mr. Armstrong?

A Yes.

Q At the time that was written was it your

understanding that you were the one who was collecting the

materials that was to receive a salary?

A Yes.

Q And what was your understanding with regard to

who was going to pay the salary?

A Mr. Hubbard.

Q And was it your understanding that Mr. Wertheimer

was representing Mr. Hubbard's interests when he stated that

Mr. Hubbard was to receive 50 percent of the royalties under

the contract?

A Yes.

 

 

 
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Q So it was your understanding then that the

project you were engaged in was a profit-making project

for Mr. Hubbard; is that correct?

MR. LITT: Objection; leading.

THE COURT: Overruled.

THE WITNESS: Yes, it was.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: And was it your understanding

that Mr. Hubbard would have final approval for the contract

as set forth in exhibit double E?

A Yes.

MR. HARRIS: Well, just a second, Your Honor. May I

move to strike the answer to interpose an objection?

That is a characterization by Mr. Flynn of the

contract which Your Honor has, which we have no objection

moving into evidence, and then the witness's understanding

is brought in. So the problem with the question is it is

both ambiguous and assumes facts not in evidence.

MR. FLYNN: I will withdraw it.

THE COURT: Well, the only problem, I am looking at

the last paragraph, and, of course, Mr. Wertheimer says,

"In connection with the foregoing however, it must be

understood that Mr. Hubbard must have final approval over

the manuscript."

MR. HARRIS: The manuscript, not the contract as

Mr. Flynn indicates.

THE COURT: All right.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: Well, was it your understanding

that Mr. Hubbard had final approval of the manuscript,

 

 

 
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Mr. Armstrong?

A Yes.

Q Now, let me show you a letter dated December 2,

1980 from Mr. Wertheimer.

May that be marked double F?

THE COURT: All right, double F.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: Have you seen this letter before?

A Yes.

Q And what are the circumstances under which you

first saw this letters Mr. Armstrong?

A I was given it by Laurel Sullivan.

Q And when was that?

A Right shortly after the date of that letter.

Q And turning to the second page in the first

sentence of the second paragraph, directing your attention

to the sentence:

"Mr. Hubbard already has ownership and

possession of the Archives. If he were inclined

to do so, Mr, Hubbard could, for relatively little

money, engage an author directly and then own

all rights to his own 'authorized biography.'"

A Yes.

Q Do you see that?

A Yes.

Q Did that comport with your understanding that

in your capacity as Mr. Hubbard's representative he owned the

documents you were collecting?

A Yes.

 

 

 
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Q Now those letters are written to a Larry Brennan;

is that correct?

A Yes.

Q Who was Larry Brennan?

A Larry Brennan was at that time in the legal

bureau WW. I believe his title was Branch I Director Legal WW,

and he also apparently represented AOSH DK for I don't know

what broader, in what broader sense than for the biography,

but he apparently represented ADSH DK at the same time.

Q When you say Branch I WW, is that the Guardian's

Office?

A Yes.

Q And did you understand that the Guardian's

Office controlled PDK?

MR. LITT: Objection. What does his understanding

of that have to do with anything?

THE COURT: Sustain the objection.

Q BY MR. LITT: At some point in time,

Mr. Armstrong, did you learn that PDK after the contract with

Mr. Garrison was entered into knew nothing about the

contract?

 

 

 
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MR. LITT: Objection. Leading.

THE COURT: Overruled.

THE WITNESS: Yes

Q BY MR. FLYNN: And when did that occur?

A That occurred in the summer and fall of 1981.

I attempted -- Omar Garrison was supposed to

receive another, I believe, $2,500 in expense money. He had

been paid a certain amount up to that point.

So I attempted to communicate with AOSH DK,

thinking that they would the people to know about this and

to forward the $2,500.

I received communications back from AOSH DK

indicating that they were not going to pay and that they

didn't know anything about the biography contract.

One communication came from the CO or the

commanding officer of AOSH DK.

Q And who was that?

A I forget the name right now. But we have one

communication with the person named. It was -- I believe

it was a Danish name. I really don't recall.

Q Now, exhibit EE and FF set forth various proposals

by Mr. Wertheimer to PDK in connection with Mr. Hubbard's

participation in the biography project; is that correct?

A Yes.

Q And also with respect to the ownership of the

archives; is that correct?

A Yes.

Q And also with respect to the position that you

 

 

 
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had in Mr. Hubbard's employ; is that correct?

A Yes.

MR. LITT: Objection. The documents all speak for

themselves. These are characterizations. There is

specifically no mention of Mr. Armstrong by name in any of

them. So --

THE COURT: They do speak for themselves.

MR. FLYNN: May this be marked next in order, Your Honor?

THE COURT: GG.

BY MR. FLYNN: Mr. Armstrong, what is exhibit GG?

A This is a letter from Larry Brennan to Alan

Wertheimer regarding the LRH biography.

Q And did you receive that in connection with your

capacity as Mr. Hubbard's representative?

A Yes.

Q And was it your understanding as set forth in

exhibit GG that proposals 1, 3, and 4 of the prior letters

of Mr. Wertheimer were agreed to by Mr. Brennan on behalf

of PDK?

A Yes.

MR. HARRIS: His understanding is irrelevant, Your Honor.

The document speaks for itself.

MR. FLYNN: I submit it is relevant, Your Honor, because

of the continuation of his duties thereafter.

THE COURT: All right. Rephrase your question.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: After you saw all of this

correspondence, Mr. Armstrong and after you had these

dealings with Laurel Sullivan and Alan Wertheimer and Omar

 

 

 
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Garrison, was it your understanding that the materials you

were collecting were owned by L. Ron Hubbard?

A Yes.

MR. LITT: Objection. Asked and answered about four

times.

THE COURT: Sustained.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: After you received these

communications did you continue to have the understanding

and rely on the fact that the materials you were collecting

were owned by L. Ron Hubbard?

MR. LITT: Objection. Leading.

Your Honor, this is -- I mean the witness only

has to answer yes or no at this point. If he is going to

testify to state of mind, he should be asked state of mind.

He shouldn't be asked questions --

MR. FLYNN: I'll withdraw it, Your Honor.

THE COURT: All right.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: What is your state of mind,

Mr. Armstrong, with respect to who owned the biographical

materials that you were collecting after you received this

correspondence?

A L. Ron Hubbard.

Q What was your state of mind with regard to who

you were working for after you received this correspondence?

A L. Ron Hubbard.

Q And for how long did you continue in that capacity

of collecting materials?

A At least until I left the organization in

 

 

 
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December, 1981.

Q Now, at some point in time did Mr. Garrison move

into the quarters that were provided to him in the Cedars

complex?

A He never really moved in. In the sense of working

there, he came there sometimes and would work there. He never

did any writing of the manuscript there. He used it as an

office, but it was irregularly and for brief periods whenever

he did come.

Q And at some point in time did he move out almost

entirely or not occupy the premises at all?

A Yes.

Q When was that?

A That would have been probably the spring of 1981.

Q Now, when you provided materials to Mr. Garrison

after the contract was written and before the spring of 1981,

describe the circumstances under which you generally gave

him the materials, where and when.

A Mr. Garrison and I were in very close communication

throughout that period until December of '81. And so we would

make arrangements for meetings. Either he would come into

the office -- at first he came into his office and the office

where I worked more regularly than later on. But either he

would come in or I would meet him somewhere, you know, for

lunch, that sort of thing, or I would deliver materials to

him at his Costa Mesa project.

He also had a home throughout that period in

Utah. And there was once in which I drove up to Utah; there

 

 

 
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were four of us that went. We went there for New Year's.

I took materials at that time.

But generally it was either he came into the

office at which time I gave to him whatever I had prepared

in the interim since the last time I had seen him, or I went

to his place in Costa Mesa.

 

 

 
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Q All right, now, were any restrictions ever

placed on you by anyone as to what materials you could or

could not give to Omar Garrison?

A No.

Q And what was your understanding, Mr. Armstrong,

as to what you could give to Omar Garrison with regard to

the materials you collected?

A I could give him virtually anything, anything

which I deemed had biographical use.

Q Did Mr. Hubbard ever communicate to you any

restrictions?

A No.

Q Did Mrs. Hubbard ever communicate to you any

restrictions?

A No.

Q Between the time of the contract and the

spring of 1981 approximately how many times did you deliver

materials to Mr. Garrison at his Costa Mesa apartment?

A Six or seven.

Q And up to the spring of 1981 what volume of

materials do you estimate you had given to Mr. Garrison at

that point in time?

A Maybe 10,000 pages.

Q Now were those copies or originals?

A Copies.

Q And who did the copying?

A I did.

Q Were you provided any support staff during that

 

 

 
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period of time to do copying?

A No.

Q And other than your duties copying and giving

materials to Mr. Garrison, prior to the spring of 1981 had

you done anything else in connection with the biography

project other than what you have already testified about

with regard to trips?

A The first date --- since the inception -- since

the signing of the contract?

Q Right.

A There was one trip which you could call a

trip which was done and that was to the Special Unit, to

Gilman Not Springs, and I set up a number of interviews for

Omar. He stayed off the property. He stayed there about a

week, I believe, total, and I went with him and to the La Quinta

property along with another man by the name of Leo Johnson,

and then he interviewed a number of people on the Gilman

Hot Springs property, and all this took place over a period

of a week or so so that was during that time.

Q Now, after -- in the spring of 1981 did you

begin to take some trips with respect to your duties collecting

documents and conducting interviews on behalf of Mr. Hubbard?

A There was another trip which I did with

Omar and his wife, and it took, I recall, probably two, maybe

a little over two weeks and we drove up to Washington State

and then to Montana, and through that trip we interviewed a

number of people who had known Mr. Hubbard in the early

days.

 

 

 
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When I say "early" we mean pre-Dianetics days,

and family members and I went through a number of records in

Helena, Montana, and Bremmerton and Port Orchard, Washington

at that time.

Q Who paid Mr. Garrison's expenses if you know?

A It came form AOSH DK. I don't know where it

ultimately care from because the checks, in fact, came from

World Wide, but I don't know. I don't know what bank accounts

or who it ultimately or whose money it was ultimately.

Q How do you know the checks came from Worldwide?

This is GOWW?

A Right.

Q How do you know that?

A I saw the initial and the second check.

Q Now, who paid your expenses?

A Sea Org reserves.

Q And after that trip, was there a trip to the

Mid-West in July of '81?

A Yes.

Q And how long did that trip last?

A About five weeks.

Q And who went on it?

A I drove a car and then Joscelyn joined me in

Iowa.

Q Joscelyn is your wife?

A Yes.

Q And where did you go on that trip?

A Went to Nebraska, Iowa, Canada and then down

 

 

 
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through Oklahoma, Wichita, Phoenix. There was a number of

other points along the way, but those were the principal ones

which had historical interest.

Q And why did they have historical interest?

A I was at that time tracing the geneology of

Mr. Hubbard and his family had come from there.

Q Who paid for that trip?

A Sea Org reserves.

Q And did you conduct that trip as the representative

of Mr. Hubbard?

A Yes.

Q For purposes of the biography project?

A Yes.

Q Now, throughout this period of time did you

have ongoing conversations with Omar Garrison about the

materials you were collecting?

A Yes.

Q And what was the nature of these conversations,

Mr. Armstrong?

A Well, them was the factual setting of the

conversation, what information I had copied for him, what he

needed, what area he was particularly interested in at the

time, and my attempt to provide him whatever information

that would fit into the period or the subject in which he was

then looking.

Additionally there was a great number of

our conversations which dealt with the many misrepresentations

which we were uncovering throughout that period and the

 

 

 
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differences between the documentation which I was discovering

and copying and providing to him, those differences between

those materials and the PR biographical sketches and the

information which had been provided about Mr. Hubbard in dust

jacket material and about-the-author sections and that

sort of thing.

 

 

 
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Q How often did these conversations take place?

A After the initial couple of meetings with

Mr. Garrison, they took place -- something in the nature was

discussed -- almost in every conversation with him. Something

like that would cone up in almost every conversation.

Q How quickly after the contract was signed did

you begin bringing documents to Mr.Garrison

A The same day.

Q And from that point on you and he discussed

differences between what was in the documents and what had

previously been represented about Mr. Hubbard?

A No. It actually took a few days. I didn't say

anything initially to Mr. Garrison about any discrepancies.

It initially came up when I provided Mr. Garrison

a number of letters between Mr. Hubbard and his first wife.

And that would have been perhaps a week after the beginning

of our contractual relationship together.

Q And from there to the time you left the

organization in december, 1981, can you estimate how many

conversations you had with Mr. Garrison about the discrepancies

between what was in the documents and what had previously

been represented about Mr. Hubbard?

A I would say that during that period there would

have been a hundred such meetings and conversations, either

by telephone or in person.

Q Now, did Mr. Garrison during these conversations

begin to discuss with you the probability of the biography

ever being approved?

 

 

 
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A Yes.

Q And when did that subject first arise?

A It began to arise sometime probably in early 1981.

Q And what was said at that time?

A There were -- there were a couple of anticipated

problems, one of which was the fact that there was no way

in which the biography could apparently be approved because

there was no line of communication to Hr. Hubbard at that

time or no line which, at least, could be admitted to.

So that was one of the problems which he faced.

Another one was the fact that he was -- together

we were uncovering this drastic difference between what the

PR had been up to that time and what the facts actually were.

And he felt that Scientology and, more

particularly, Mr. Hubbard could not stand to see the facts

about the man. And he was in the position of wanting to do

an honest biography and not wanting to write what he called

a puff. And he felt that as a result, he was going to

continue on, but he felt that ultimately, as he said many

times, the book would never see the light of print.

Q And did he use a term to describe that, the fact

that there were misrepresentations and for that reason the

book would never see the light of print?

MR. LITT: Your Honor, these are all hearsay statements.

I don't understand what they have to do with.

THE COURT: They are all part of the sequence of events

that led up to the ultimate situation, state of mind,

circumstances, background.

 

 

 
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You may answer.

THE WITNESS: Yes. I'm not quite sure what you mean

by a particular word.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: Was there a term 'coperphilia"

used?

MR. LITT: Should I bother suggesting that that was

leading, Your Honor?

THE WITNESS: I knew the word, but I just didn't know

how admissible that -- such a thing would be.

Yes, there was. He referred to the followers

of Mr. Hubbard as coperphiliacs.

Q Did these discussions continue right up to the

time you left the organization?

A Yes.

Q Now, at some point in time did discussions begin

about the fact that you and Mr.Armstrong -- you and

Mr. Garrison could be subject to attack by the organization

for finding out the truth about Mr. Hubbard?

A Yes. We had many discussions like that.

Q And when did those discussions begin?

A They began in the fall of 1981.

 

 

 
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Q And do you recall the first such discussion?

A There was a point at which -- yes, I do.

Q And when was that?

A It followed an incident where I was called

to SU as a result of Norman Starsky who I knew at that point

to be the second in charge of Mr. Hubbard's legal missions,

to be called -- I was called to SU to be sec checked regarding

what material I had provided to Mr. Garrison.

Q Now at that point in time what was your under-

standing as to Mr. Starsky's authority to act on behalf of

anyone in the Church of Scientology?

A I never considered him in relation to the

Church of Scientology. I understood at that point that he was

in charge of the LRH legal mission, that he was in the CMO

or was a CMO Missionaire and at that point he was involved in

dealings with new attorneys which had been retained to handle

Mr. Hubbard's legal problems.

MCCS at that point had been disbanded.

Laurel Sullivan had been pulled out to SU to pull weeds and

a new mission had been established, and part of this new

mission, the second in charge of the new mission was

Norman Starsky. So I asssumed that he was performing basically

the same functions as Laurel Sullivan and that he was

Mr. Hubbard's legal mission.

Q Now at that point in time when was the last

time you had a communication from Mr. Hubbard?

A The last one I got, which was alleged to be

from Mr. Hubbard, was some time in the late spring, early

 

 

 
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summer of 1980, and I received a message which had come,

a messenger had delivered to Laurel Sullivan asking for a

copy of the "Excalibur" manuscript to be sent to him, so

I made a copy at that point and wrote a letter to Mr. Hubbard

and sent it to him.

Q Now between the time you assumed your duties

on the project and this period in the fall of 1981, did you

have any knowledge of where L. Ron Hubbard was?

A From the point I began the project?

Q Correct.

A At that point I knew that he was in Hemet.

Thereafter I did not know where he was.

Q Did you have any knowledge as to who was with

him?

A Yes.

Q And who was with him to your knowledge?

A Pat and Annie Broeker.

Q Who are Pat and Annie Broeker?

MR. LITT: Is this personal knowledge or was he told

this, too?

Q BY MR. FLYNN: Where did you get this knowledge

from, Mr. Armstrong?

A From Laurel and it was generally known among

those of us who were at that level in the organization, and

it could also be arrived at simply by two methods, by who was

missing and by the fact that in late 1980 or early 1981

Mr. Hubbard sent down a manuscript which later was published

as a book "Battlefield Earth."

 

 

 
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And there was a proof, an initial proofreading

and notes which were done, and they were in Pat Broeker's

handwriting.

Q And did you see those?

A Yes.

Q And do you know Pat Broeker?

A Yes.

Q And at that point in time how long had you

know him?

A For about nine years.

Q And were you familiar with his handwriting?

A Yes.

Q And during that nine-year period did you

become familiar with the posts that he had held for Mr. Hubbard?

A Yes.

Q And what was your understanding at that time

what post Pat Broeker held?

A That he held or up to that point?

Q Up to that point in time.

A When I knew him on the ship, he was in the

accounting, either as an FBO; that is, a Flag Banking Officer

or someone who dealt with organization moneys.

When we moved to Clearwater in Dunedin, he was

on an ALR Missan along with his wife at the time,

Trudy Broeker, and they were in charge under Hubbard of a

particular aspect dealing with the move into Clearwater.

Thereafter, he was with Mr. Hubbard in La Quinta

and performed -- he was at that time appointed as a messenger.

 

 

 
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Some time during that period he married Annie,

formerly Annie Tidman, Annie Rush, and the two of them were

considered high level messengers. There is various echelons

within the Commodore's Messenger organization, and they

were up near the top.

From 1978 Pat was involved as a messenger with

the movie production, and he would accompany Mr. Hubbard to

the set and carry out or have Mr. Hubbard's orders carried out

on the film production set.

In 1979 he was with Mr. Hubbard in Hemet and

in 1980 also he arrived with Mr. Hubbard a number of times,

so I saw him several times in 1978 when he would arrive with

Mr. Hubbard in a van. Mr. Hubbard arrived at the property

in a van and I would see Pat with him at that time.

 

 

 
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In 1980 Pat and Ann Broeker and Mr. Hubbard went

into hiding.

Q Now, after 1980 up to the time you left the

organization, December, 1981 did you become familiar with

the command lines at the top of the organization from L. Ron

Hubbard to Laurel to you?

A Yes.

Q And what were those command lines?

A From Mr. Hubbard via the people who were with

him, Pat and Ann Broeker via David Miscavige down in the CMO

or into the personal office.

Q Who is David Miscavige?

A David Miscavige was a messenger who, after

Mr. Hubbard left in 1980, took over under Mr. Hubbard, the

command or control of personal office CMO and all of the

Scientology network.

Q How old was David Miscavige at the time?

A I don't know. He was quite young.

Q Between -- throughout the period of time that

you were on the biography project did messages from

Mr. Hubbard come through Pat Broeker and David Miscavige to

Laurel Sullivan?

A I don't know about Pat Broeker.

All I was told about Pat Broeker -- but I knew

they came via David Miscavige.

Q Was that the routine command lines for

communications from Mr. Hubbard throughout 1980 and 1981?

A Yes.

 

 

 
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Q And was there an understanding at your level in

the organization in 1980, 1981 as to who was with Mr. Hubbard

at that time?

A Yes.

Q And who was that?

A Pat Nanenbroeker --

MR. LITT: Objection. He is not now speaking of his

own understanding; he is speaking of a collection of

understandings.

THE COURT: It is more or less the reputation of the

organization. I'll let it stand.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: Do you know Mr. Starsky worked

for?

A Yes.

Q Who did he work for?

A At that time the chain of command to Norman

Starsky ran from Norman, who was the second in charge of the

special -- what was called special projects up to his senior,

Terry Gamboa to David Miscavige and then on up to Hubbard.

Q Terry Gamboa is your ex-wife?

A Yes.

Q In october, 1981 before your meeting with

Mr. Starsky did you write a request to the commanding officer

of the CMO relative to certain events that were taking place

in connection with your wife Jocelyn?

A Yes.

Q And at that time who was the commanding officer

of the Commodore's messenger organization?

 

 

 
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A Gale Irwin.

Q And do you know where Gale is today?

A I have been told that she is in San Diego.

MR. LITT: Objection.

THE COURT: It is his state of mind, It is not evidence

that she is there. It is his state of mind,

Q BY MR. FLYNN: Why did you write to Gale Irwin

the commanding officer of the Commodore's messengers?

A Because at that time my wife Jocelyn, who was

then known as Joyce, she was in charge of a legal mission

dealing with a new Scientology entity which had been created

by Mr. Hubbard called Scientology Missions International,

SMI.

Q Had she been receiving communications from

Mr. Hubbard regarding SMI?

A I don't --

MR. LITT: Objection. Is this personal knowledge now,

or what his wife told him?

MR. FLYNN: I'll withdraw it, Your Honor,

THE COURT: All right,

BY MR. FLYNN: Go ahead, Mr. Armstrong.

MR. LITT: I thought you withdrew the question.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: With regard to why you sent the

letter to Gale Irwin.

A We were talking throughout that period and she

informed me that she was very concerned because she was being

asked to do things which, in her opinion, were illegal and

that was the back dating of various legal documents, board

 

 

 
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minutes, so on.

She was not trained in legal and she had asked

people who should have that type of information and she

received two different answers: one, that it was okay and

one, that it was absolutely illegal.

She was very concerned about this. And part of

her concern -- she expressed it to me -- was that when the

so-called --- the 11, the criminal 11, were indicted and then

convicted, just prior to this, there was a PR campaign within

the organization to discredit these people and to make it

look like they were acting on their own when in fact they

were being made scapegoats. and this was in her opinion and

it was in my opinion.

She felt the same thing could happen to her; that

she was doing things which were illegal and that if it ever

came down to it, the organization would not stand behind her

and they would say she acted on her own and was doing these

illegal things.

So she was very concerned. And I, because of

my position and because of the fact that I was doing what

I was doing and had some organizational altitude and was

working for Mr. Hubbard, I wrote to the COCMO, Gale, who was

actually over the Scientology Missions International setup

and requested that Jocelyn come to work for me.

And finally, Gale did approve it and my wife did

come and work in the PR bureau specifically on the biography

project.

 

 

 
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Q Now to that point in time had you had any

assistance copying materials that you were giving to

Omar Garrison?

A No.

Q And what duties did your wife undertake at that

time with regard to copying materials to give to Omar Garrison?

A Well she really took over the totality of the

copying and because she was doing that, I was freed up to do

other things and she did mountains of copying.

MR. FLYNN: May this be marked as the next exhibit in

order, Your Honor?

THE COURT: All right, double G -- are we up to double H?

Q BY MR. FLYNN: When did she actually begin

working copying materials, Mr.Armstrong

A It would have been the last week of October

1981.

Q Up to that point in time taking the total

amount of materials that finally ended up in the hand of

Mr. Garrison before your wife Joyce started working, what

percentage of materials had you already given to Mr. Garrison

of the total amount?

A Of the total amount that I would give him?

Q Right, the total amount that was eventually

given, up to the time that your wife started work,

how much had you given him to that point in time?

A Probably half.

Q Now, when she started working, did she begin

copying documents and giving them to Mr. Garrison

 

 

 
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A Yes.

Q And for how long did she do that?

A Aside for a week or -- I am not exactly sure,

somewhere around a week, five days or a week, when we took

a trip up to Carson City, Nevada which would have been in

November, she copied throughout that period from the end of

October to the time we left in December.

Q Did you take the materials to Mr. Garrison

during that period of time or did she?

A To my recollection I always went. Sometimes

she went with me, but I think that I always delivered them.

Q And how long before the meeting with

Mr. Starsky did that take place?

A Probably a couple of weeks before I actually --

the first time I spoke to him in relation to the biography.

Q Now when you first spoke to Mr. Starsky, did

he demand to know at that time what documents you had given

to Mr. Garrison?

A No.

Q When did he first make that demand?

A That was in a communication which he wrote to

the CMO at SCU in which he ordered that I be sec checked.

Q Now, a "sec check" is again what, Mr. Armstrong?

MR. LITT: Objection; it has already been testified to.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: That is a security check?

A Yes.

Q As a result of that request by Mr. Starsky to

come and be sec checked, what did you do?

 

 

 
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A Well, I showed up at Gilman Hot Springs and I met

with the person who had called me out there, Cirrus Slevin

who was then in the Hubbard communications office within the

CM0. She was what you call an ethics person within the CMO,

ethics in a Scientological sense.

Q What does that mean?

A The person in charge of discipline or punishment.

Q And did you meet with her?

A Yes.

Q And did you have a conversation with her?

A Yes.

Q And what was that conversation?

A During that conversation she showed me

Norman Starsky's letter which he had written to her and which

he had ordered the sec check. I talked to her and explained

what I had said in the conversation with Norman Starsky and

that I had simply done what I had done in providing whatever

I had provided to Mr. Garrison, and that Mr. Garrison was

capable of reading the materials which I had provided and

making a rational decision, and that I did not agree with

Mr. Starsky's claim that I was speaking out in favor of

L. Ron Hubbard's son against the organization or that I felt

that L. Ron Hubbard's son was correct and Cirrus Slevin at

that point accepted by explanation, and I said that I would

put --- I would write her a report and I would get together

with Mr. Starsky to sort out any problems that there might

be.

Q Now did you have -- was part of that conversation

 

 

 
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about the discrepancies that had arisen about Mr. Hubbard's

background?

A Yes.

Q And did you write a report?

A Yes.

MR. FLYNN: May this be marked as the next exhibit

in order?

THE COURT: Double I.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: How long after your meeting with

Cirrus Slevin did you write the report?

A This would have been within a day.

Q And what was the purpose of writing the report,

Mr. Armstrong?

A The purpose was to make it very clear that

contrary to what Mr. Starsky had said, I was not seeking to

attack Mr. Hubbard.

 

 

 
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That I was simply seeking to have whatever truth

we could find brought out and to not continue to promulgate

false information about the man which ultimately would come

back to harm him.

And I sought to let her know of what I had found,

at least in part, and the problem that I was running into

in the hopes that a bigger view of the whole situation would

be taken than what I considered sort of a myopic view which

Mr. Starsky had taken.

THE COURT: We'll take a recess at this time. We'll

reconvene at 1:30.

(at 11:58 a.m., a recess was taken

until 1:30 p.m. of the same day.)

 

 

 
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Los Angeles, California; Friday, May 11, 1984; 1:33 p.m.

---0---

 

THE COURT: In the case on trial, let the record reflect

that counsel are present; the witness has retaken the stand.

State your name again for the record, sir. You

are still under oath.

THE WITNESS: Gerald Armstrong.

THE COURT: You may continue, counsel.

 

GERALD ARMSTRONG,

the witness on the stand at the time of recess, resumed the

stand, having been previously sworn, and testified further

as follows:

 

DIRECT EXAMINATION (Resumed)

BY MR. FLYNN:

Q Exhibit II dated November 25th, 1981,

Mr. Armstrong, you were testifying about; how was that

delivered to Cirrus Slevin, if you know, by hand, or by mail?

A I have got there "care of CECP."

Our mail, that is, the mail which I had to go

out to the special unit, I dropped in an office called CECP.

That was Commodore's external COM PAC. And that was the --

what before was the LRH external COM Bureau.

Q Now, this is sent to HCO COPE Int?

A HCO is the Hubbard Communications Office which

is a division within the CMO. The COPE officer was a position

 

 

 
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which handled kind of random items which came up and which

required someone to cope with them.

 

 

 
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Q And where was that post located?

A At that time it was at Gilman Hot Springs.

Q Now, you refer to Norman Starsky's report in

exhibit doubt I; is that correct?

A Yes.

Q And how long before you wrote exhibit double I

did you see Norman Starsky's report?

A Within a day of that.

Q And Norman Starsky again was in the Guardian's

office?

A No. Norman Starsky was -- I have noted here

he was special project second NS. Special Project was the

project which at that time was taking care of L. Ron Hubbard's

legal affairs.

Q Approximately how long was Norman Starsky's

report if you recall?

A I believe it was two pages?

Q And essentially what did it say?

A He ordered that I be sec checked because --

to find out what documents I had given to Omar Garrison.

He mentioned that I appeared to be -- that I was in favor of

or siding with Nibs.

Nibs was L. Ron Hubbard, Jr. or Ron De Wolfe.

In any case, he was L. Ron Hubbard's first son, and Starsky

also mentioned something about my claim that L. Ron Hubbard

was stating that he was an atomic physicist.

Q And did he indicate that you were claiming

that L. Ron Hubbard was not an atomic physicist, contrary to

 

 

 
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what L. Ron Hubbard was stating?

A No. The situation I ran into with Norman was

that I was saying that Hubbard wasn't an atomic physicist and

he said, "Well, he never ever claimed to be."

And I showed him a book in Hubbard's own

handwriting in which he claimed to be an atomic physicist,

and that is what he mentioned in his dispatch to Cirrus.

Q Now, about this time did an individual named

Vaughn Young begin to come into the picture?

A I believe some time prior to this Vaughn had

actually become involved with the biography project.

Q And how much before this?

A Possibly a month.

Q And what was Vaughn Young's position at the time?

A He was in the Guardian's Office public relations

bureau.

Q Now, referring you to the fifth paragraph on

the first page of exhibit double I, you note some materials

prepared by an enemy researcher Michael Shannon; what does that

mean?

A some time prior to this but still in 1981,

possibly in the summer or earlier, maybe even in the spring

of 1981, I had learned first of all through an old Dianeticist

from Tennessee with whom I was in contact, his name was

Perry Chandelan of the existence of this person, Michael Shannon,

who was assembling information on L. Ron Hubbard, and

Perry Chandelan sent me a pack of materials which had been

prepared by Shannon.

 

 

 
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That was the first time I knew of Shannon.

I learned more about Shannon throughout 1981.

Q You say that much of Shannon's material is

accurate; is that correct?

A Yes.

Q Now, in the next paragraph what do you mean

when you say that the facts that have been presented, if

disproved, will make outsiders at least think that L. Ron

Hubbard is a charlatan?

A Well, Mr. Hubbard and the organization had at

that point for 30 years been putting out information about

Mr. Hubbard and about has history and his accomplishments

and he credentials and educational background, which I knew

at that time to be untrue, and I felt like if we didn't

correct them and if they were disproven, which they were

being disproven by the media and more particularly by

Michael Shannon, that Hubbard would end up looking like a

fraud, you know, unless we took steps to correct it.

Q Now, did you have a general understanding at

the time that you wrote exhibit double I that thousands of

Scientologists throughout the world had relied on

L. Ron Hubbard's background?

 

 

 
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MR. LITT: Objection.

MR. HARRIS: I object to his understanding. It is

irrelevant.

His state of mind might be.

THE COURT: What is the difference between understanding

and state of mind?

MR. HARRIS: I'm not sure, Your Honor, because Mr. Flynn

uses understanding seemingly always when he means state of

mind.

Understanding, strikes me as an agreed upon

reality. And this witness' state of mind might not have been

agreed upon by anybody except himself.

THE COURT: Why don't you ask what his opinion was?

MR. HARRIS: That's fine, Your Honor.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: What was your opinion,

Mr. Armstrong, as to whether Scientologists throughout the

world had relied upon the honesty of L. Ron Hubbard?

A I thought they had.

Q And with regard to the background and educational

background of L. Ron Hubbard, what was your state of mind

with regards to that?

A I felt that Scientologists generally relied on

that.

Q You see at the top of page 2, ". . . even in our

system it would be severely dealt with if someone pretended

certification."

What do you mean "in our system"?

A Well, within the broad Scientology network with

 

 

 
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people who were then Scientologists, it was a crime to pretend

certification that one didn't have.

Q What do you mean "a crime"?

A Within Scientology.

Q Was that a term that was used, "crime"?

A Yes.

Q And what did the term mean?

A It was a particular offense within Scientology

for which one could be punished.

Q To falsify their credentials?

A Right.

Q Now, you go on to recite the various

misrepresentations you had found about L. Ron Hubbard; is

that correct?

A I went -- I listed a number there which I found

in a particular document which I believe I attached to the

letter. The document isn't here, but it was attached. And

it was on this particular item I called the data sheet on

Lafayette Ronald Hubbard.

I extracted from that a number of items which

were inaccurate or unprovable or hyperbole.

Q In whose handwriting was the data sheet?

A Mr. Hubbard's.

Q On page 4 you state that, ". . . it is not logical

that I should be targeted for digging up the facts" in the

first sentence of the second paragraph. What did you mean

by that?

A I felt that I had been targeted by Norman Starsky

 

 

 
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for trying to get to the truth.

He had ordered that I be Sec Checked. And I felt

that was extremely out of line when in fact I was trying to

investigate, as a researcher would, to find out what the facts

were.

Q And on the top of page 5 you say, ". . , Nibs.

What I stated was the situation with Nibs was to a great

degree our creation. He has been mishandled and dealt with

dishonestly."

What did you mean by that?

A Nibs was L. Ron Hubbard's son. And just prior

to this I had gone to Carson City along with Omar Garrison

and we had met Nibs.

I had also, prior to going to Carson City, was

briefed on the situation with Nibs by Guardians Office

personnel. I was given a time track of data collected on

Nibs.

I was told by a GO intelligence officer by the

name of Peter Alvette that they had someone in close to Nibs

that was Ford Schwartz --

MR. LITT: Is this all for state of mind?

THE COURT: He is explaining his letter and the

circumstances.

THE WITNESS: I also knew by that time that many people

had been writing to Nibs and signing these letters, originating

them and signing their, as if they were from L. Ron Hubbard

when in fact they were not. And that this was, at least,

the dishonesty that I had in mind when I wrote this

 

 

 
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communication.

I felt like in that, we, Mr. Hubbard, the

organization, his organization, were responsible for some

of those acts. I thought that we had, to a great degree,

created any problems which existed with Nibs.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: Did you receive a reply from Cirrus

Slevin?

A Yes, I did.

Q And when was that?

A It was sometime after my communication.

Q And when did you last see that reply?

A It would have been around -- sometime after I

got it.

Q And what did she say?

A I don't recall very clearly right now.

It was an acknowledgement of my communication

and that she understood my situation. And I believe she

urged me to get in touch with Norman Starsky.

Q Did you do that?

A I tried to commuunicate to him. He never made

himself available.

Q Now, you mentioned Vaughn Young was coming into the

picture at this point in time; is that correct?

A Yes.

Q Now --

May this be marked as the next exhibit in order,

Your Honor?

THE COURT: JJ.

 

 

 
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Q BY MR. FLYNN: Did you receive from Vaughn Young

what has been marked as exhibit JJ?

A Yes.

Q And what does that exhibit in general relate to,

Mr. Armstrong?

A This is related to "re contracting with Omar

Garrison."

The situation arose because Mr. Garrison complained

about the biography contract which he had with PDK, AOSH PDK.

And he was unhappy about the conditions of the contract and

the unworkability of the contract.

Q And did you have discussions with Mr. Young

relative to those matters that are in part set forth in

exhibit JJ?

A Yes.

Q Now, directing your attention to page 2 under

paragraph no. 5, there is a sentence relating to earlier

correspondence regarding Laurel Sullivan and Mr. Wertheimer

and a quote that the maximum advantages LRH could hope to

achieve financially and publically in the creation of this

property -- we are paraphrasing it -- the basic motivation

at that point in the biography project in terms of getting

the biography done; do you see that?

A Yes.

 

 

 
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Q Was that discussed between you and Mr. Young?

A Yes.

Q And between you and Miss Sullivan?

A It was only discussed -- initially it was

discussed between Laurel and myself. This would have been

in September or October of 1980. Laurel by the time of this

was out of the -- at least the PR Bureau in Los Angeles,

but Mr. Young was there and I discussed it with him at that

point, but only in relation to what had been done.

Q Now, there is a notation, "From this point on

much of the discussion involved how to get LRH money on

the cycle."

What does that mean?

A That in the initial biography negotiations one

of the major points which was being discussed and one of the

major reasons for even entering into the whole biography and

contract was to make money for Mr. Hubbard.

Q And that is set forth in exhibit double J?

A Yes.

Q Now at the top of page 3 there is a notation

relating to a secret contract to be done between LRH and

PDK, but did not inform OVG.

Who is "OVG"?

A Omar V. Garrison.

Q And what was the discussion relative to the

secret contract?

A Do you mean with --

MR. LITT: What discussion?

 

 

 
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Q BY MR. FLYNN: Mr. Young.

A Okay.

Mr. Young and I talked at the time about the

fact that Omar had been enticed into a contract in which he

was going to split royalties with Mr. Hubbard and not knowing

at the time that the intention was also to have Mr. Hubbard

make 50 percent of AOSH PDK's net proceeds,

Q In addition to the royalties?

A Right.

Q And Mr. Garrison didn't know that?

A Right. That was the substance of the

conversations between Vaughn Young and myself.

Q Now was there a discussion relative to the

fact of someone -- the standardness in the industry of someone

having a biography written about them and splitting the

proceeds from the biography with the person writing it?

A I also discussed that with Vaughn.

Q And what was the nature of that discussion?

A Just basically what you said; the PR liability

in having that situation in which the subject was being

paid out of the proceeds of the biography and the lack of

credibility that that would give the biography if that fact

were known.

Q And the notation was made, "Thus the concentration

became on how much money could be squeezed out for LRH."

Is that what you discussed with Mr. Young?

A That was it.

MR. HARRIS: Maybe, Your Honor, Mr. Flynn could ask the

 

 

 
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witness if there was such a conversation and please state who

said what as opposed to leading him through this letter

which isn't the witness's letter.

MR. FLYNN: That was my foundation question, Your

Honor, whether they had a conversation about the letter.

MR. HARRIS: Well, so far, Your Honor, everything I

have heard has been foundation.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: Now, on page 4 there is another

notation about, "The entire contract resolved about money

and put the project on a withhold."

Do you see that?

A Yes.

Q What is meant by a "withhold", Mr. Armstrong?

MR. HARRIS: In this letter, Your Honor?

THE COURT: If you know, you can state. If you don't,

you can so state.

THE WITNESS: The withhold is something which is not

communicated when it ought to be communicated, so that

everything between the parties in a communication know what

they need to know.

In this case the project was on a withhold on

a number of counts, the first being that Omar Garrison was

not informed that Mr. Hubbard was going to make even more

money than Mr. Garrison thought that he was going to make

during the project.

The whole thing was on a withhold from the

public because it was not going to be a standard biography

as Mr. Young called it in that the subject of the biography

 

 

 
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was going to make a great deal of money from it, and this

would be a fact which it would not be desirable to the public

know.

Q And was basically the substance of your

conversation with regard to what you have just testified to

with Mr. Young set forth in exhibit double J?

A Yes.

 

 

 
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MR. LITT: Just so I understand the last question, was

that question whether or not exhibit JJ reflects the --

exhibit JJ in its totality reflects the substance of their

discussions?

Q BY MR. FLYNN: With respect to the things that

are set forth in exhibit JJ, did you have discussions with

Vaughn Young about those matters, Mr. Armstrong?

A Yes.

Q Now, at that point in time did you become

concerned about the legality of the biography project?

A Yes.

Q Did you subsequently receive a copy of

correspondence from Vaughn Young that had been sent to someone

named Sue?

May that be marked as the next in order, Your

Honor?

THE COURT: Very well; KK.

THE WITNESS: Yes.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: And that correspondence is dated

28 November, '81, for the record.

Is that correct, Mr. Armstrong?

A Yes.

Q Now, there is a notation, "Biog Debug Ic" in the

upper left-hand corner; what does that mean?

A This is the biography project.

"Debug Ic," that is in charge, who was Vaughn

Young.

"Debug" means there was a bug in it. It was a

 

 

 

 
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problem. And the Debug person was to get rid of that bug.

Q Bug meaning problem?

A Problem.

A In the second paragraph -- well, in the first

paragraph it is stated, "I want to get into the pack. So

we'll just give the CC to Gerry'; is that you?

A Yes.

Q And what does the "CC" mean?

A The CC refers to the -- he made a carbon copy

of this and gave the carbon copy to me.

Q The next sentence is, "as you'll see by the

attached, PDK claims ignorance of a contract with OVG."

What was attached to that, Mr. Armstrong?

A There was a note from someone at Worldwide with

whom Vaughn was communicating about the contract.

There is a note in there about PDK not know about

the contract.

Q And the contract is the contract between Omar

Garrison and PDK; is that correct?

A Yes.

Q And one of the parties to the contract had

notified Vaughn Young that they didn't even know about it;

is that correct?

A One of the parties had notified someone at WW

who was attempting to rectify the matter of the final payment

of Omar Garrison's expense money, $2,500. And I could not

get it paid. I attempted to.

The problem showed up that PDK did not know of

 

 

 
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the existence of the contract.

MR. HARRIS: Well, this commanding officer, allegedly

of PDK didn't know about the contract is the witness'

testimony. So it assumes facts not in evidence in the

question, Your Honor.

THE COURT: Well, I think he was purporting to relate

the substance of this letter that was received.

Am I correct?

THE WITNESS: Yes, Your Honor.

THE COURT: For that purpose it will be received.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: Now, when you indicated that you

were trying to get money, expense money, for Mr. Garrison,

under what circumstances did that come up?

A Well, per the contract which he signed in

october, 1980, he was to be given, I believe it is, $7,500,

maybe $7,000, some amount of money, for expenses to be paid

to him in connection with his work on the biography. There

was still $2,500 outstanding in the expense money. He had

spent everything that he had up to date.

I ha been trying for a couple of months to obtain

agreement or to obtain that money. And I communicated where

I was supposed to communicate. And I received back at one

point a Telex indicating that they didn't know anything about

the matter, about the contract.

And in chasing it down through the people who

were probably in control of PDK, that is, the Guardian's Office

Worldwide, there was a communication which came back to me

and one to Vaughn Young which indicated that they thought

 

 

 
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that the whole thing was being handled in the U.S. and that

PDK didn't know about it.

Q And did you receive this communication from Vaughn

Young relative to the expense money of Mr. Garrison and PDK's

refusal to pay it?

A Yes. I received a copy of this from Vaughn Young.

 

 

 
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MR. FLYNN: May this be next in order?

THE COURT: Okay, double L.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: Now, when you learned of these

matters in the last part of November '81, I believe you

testified that you became concerned about the legality of

the project; is that correct?

A I had been concerned for some time and it was

as a result of my concern, result of the fact that I couldn't

get the money for Omar Garrison, that PDK claimed no knowledge

of the contract, that is one of the reasons that Vaughn Young

was brought in. He was the Guardian's office personnel.

It was Guardian's office at GOWW who, in fact, had control

of AOSH DK.

Larry Brennan was a Guardian's office staff

member in Worldwide, and he was the signer for AOSH PDK,

for that and other reasons Vaughn was brought in to handle that

problem.

Q Now, during this period of time was Laurel

Sullivan involved in these problems that were ongoing about

the contract?

A Laurel was involved initially. The first

communication which Omar wrote in probably June of 1981,

Laurel was involved. She knew about the problem that

Omar was having with the biography at that time.

Laurel, within a short period of that time,

was recalled from Los Angeles to Gilman Hot Springs and

she was removed from the PR post or at least she was under

what is called a Committee of Evidence which is a justice body,

 

 

 
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and this was out at Gilmm Hot Springs, so her involvement with

the biography and with the contract and with the legal

problems ended at that point.

Q Now when you wrote the letter to Cirrus Slevin

dated November 25, 1981, did you write that in your capacity

as a representative for Mr. Hubbard?

A Well I believed that I was representing him

at that time.

Q And was it your intention at that time to

protect his interests when you wrote that letter?

A Yes.

Q Now at that time was there ongoing copying of

materials by you and your wife with regard to the biography

project in giving such materials to Mr. Garrison?

A Yes.

Q And was that being done on a daily basis at

that point in time, Mr. Armstrong?

A Yes.

Q And for how long of a period of time did that

continue where copying was being done on a daily basis?

A It continued virtually until the day that my

wife and I left the organization which would be December 12,

1981.

Q And when you were doing that, did you believe

that you were doing it to fulfill the terms of your agreement

with Mr. Hubbard to provide materials to Mr. Garrison?

A Yes.

Q Were you able to communicate with Mr. Hubbard

 

 

 
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at that time?

A No.

Q Did you believe that the materials you were

providing to Mr. Garrison at that time would result in a

truthful biography of L. Ron Hubbard?

A Yes.

Q Now did a series of circumstances originate in

early December 1981 which involved Omar Garrison assisting

you and leaving the organization?

A Yes.

Q And would you describe what that was, please?

A The initial thing, I guess, during that period

was the order from Norman Starsky regarding my being sec checked,

and I viewed at that time that that was an attack on me,

and it was an attack on what I was doing at that point,

and I became very concerned because I on one hand was working

for Mr. Hubbard, and here other people ostensibly working

for Mr. Hubbard were ordering that I do certain things and

were coming in to try and govern or apparently take control

take control of the biography contract.

At that time I tried to communicate with

Mr. Starsky. He was unwilling to communicate to me. I

began to realize that there was no way in which I could

effect any kind of a change within the organization,

particularly regarding representations being made about the

organization, about Mr. Hubbard. I knew at that time that

contrary to what was being told to me and the PR line at that

point was that the actions of the Guardian's office which

 

 

 
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has been the intelligence network and enforcement arm of

Hubbard and Scientology, that it had been dismantled and

that that organization was no longer involved in dirty tricks

and harassment of people viewed as enemies, that I felt that

it was continuing.

I knew at that point that the ED International,

Bill Franks, had been incarcerated at Gilman Not Springs.

Laurel Sullivan related a story to me at that point of what

had happened to the hierarchy of the Guardian's office who had

been removed and who had been put pulling weeds at Gilman

Hot Springs.

She also told me stories at that time about

an assassination plot against a woman in Canada by the name

of Lorna Levitt --

MR. LITT: Your Honor, this is coming in for what

purpose?

MR. FLYNN: His state of mind.

MR. HARRIS: State of mind.

THE WITNESS: I began to perceive that the organization

was nothing but an intelligence organization. I began to

perceive that the purpose of the Guardian's office was to

destroy anyone who sought to find out the truth of the facts

of L. Ron Hubbard.

My wife and I were extremely, extremely paranoid

at that time because I had also learned that Bill Franks'

phone had been tapped even though he was a staff member. I

worked out an arrangement with Omar Garrison so that if at

any time I was gone, if I did not call at a certain time, he

 

 

 
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was to call for me at the organization. Mr. Garrison was

knowledgeable of these things because he had done the book

"Playing Dirty" in which he knew of burglaries, operations

against government agencies and against individuals.

I knew at that point of the harassment of

Paulette Cooper who had written a book about the organization.

I knew that that is how the organization, Mr. Hubbard viewed

myself and my wife and I in the beginning of December

determined to leave.

 

 

 
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And Mr, Garrison played a part in it; in fact,

we met with Mr. Garrison, my wife and I, around this time

down in Corona Del Mar. And all of us were so afraid that

we were being bugged or followed that we met on the beach.

And he said -- or I asked him that there was a

lot of things happening at that time. And Jocelyn and I were

very afraid, but that I would stick around as long as I could

in order to get him the materials which he would need for

the biography.

And he said, "get out."

So I said, "Okay. I'll stay and get for you

whatever I can up to the point where we simply have to leave."

And he agreed with that and said he would help

in any way he could.

And so over a course of the next week or ten days,

my wife and I moved our own materials, our own clothes, and

knicknacks and bicycles and that sort of thing out of our

room in the Cedars complex. We moved it out a box at a time,

a day at a time. We moved it out at all hours. And the

reason for this was because I knew of the practice of the

organization of locking people up, especially people in a

position like mine who had information that they would deem

was of a high security nature, of locking people up, of having

them submit to Sec Checks, of having them sign lists of their

crimes culled from their auditing folders, of having them

sign documents of various kinds incriminating them. And I

would not submit to that. And so we left.

I would say we left over a period of about

 

 

 
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ten days. We left a bit at a time, And I --

Jocelyn continued to copy whatever she could.

And I continued to provide to Mr. Garrison whatever I could.

And then I had a number of originals at that time

which Mr. Garrison wanted. I copied whatever I could of those

originals and then I -- knowing -- gauging how much I could

and could not copy, I delivered to him at the end whatever

copies and whatever originals were in the pack of materials

which he would need for the biography.

I was driving a car at the time.

I went down with my wife to Costa Mesa; brought

back Mr. Garrison's truck; put the remainder of our stuff

in the truck and then left the car and took the truck.

Then we spent the first night of leaving at

Mr. Garrison's place and then the next day we drove his truck

up to his home in Utah and we stayed there a couple of days.

He stayed in Utah for one day. He came up the

following day. So we were there for -- over the first night

alone.

Then we stayed there for a couple of days and

drove on to Canada.

Q While you were there the first night alone what

precautions did you take?

A We took precautions throughout the whole time

to make sure we were not followed and we didn't turn on any

lights. And we were very careful to -- we slept on the living

room floor that night so that we were aware and alert of

everything that was going on.

 

 

 
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Q Now, of all the documents that you copied or

originals that you provided to Omar Garrison, when you left

did you surrender all such materials to Mr. Garrison?

A Yes. Right at that time -- I took the truck;

Mr. Garrison gave me -- loaned me his truck to take up to

Canada to see my parents over Christmas. And I didn't have

any materials at that time.

At the same time he offered me a job because he

owned a small publishing company and he knew of my interest

in writing and publishing. And he offered me a job.

So while we were up in Canada I decided that I

would accept the job, which really didn't pan out, but I

continued on that.

But from then until, perhaps March I didn't have

any of the materials at all.

Q Now, when you left the organization, Mr. Armstrong,

was it your intention to do anything to harm Mr. Hubbard or

the organization?

A No.

Q And you mentioned things that occurred to people

who leave the organization involving culling auditing files;

do you recall that?

A Yes.

Q Was there a procedure called routing out within

the organization?

A Yes.

Q What was that procedure?

A It was a procedure -- there was a routing form

 

 

 
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with various steps that a person who desired to leave had

to follow in order to be allowed to leave the organization.

They included the culling of his folder and a signing of all

of the crimes or blackmailable material obtained from his

PC folders which are the auditing sections; statements made

to a Scientology auditor in confidence.

Q Does a person in Scientology who is giving

information in auditing sessions, is he made to understand

that everything he says is in confidence?

A That is the initial representation which is made

to someone. After awhile it becomes obvious that it is not,

but that is the initial representation.

Q Now, had you personally seen auditing files culled?

A Yes.

Q For the purpose of requiring forced confessions?

A Yes.

Q And when had you seen that?

A Throughout 1976, 1977, 1978.

Q And do you know an individual named Tanya Burden?

A Yes.

Q Who is she?

A Tanya Burden was a young girl who was a Commodore's

Messenger on board the ship; later at Clearwater; later at

Dunedin. And she ended up in the RPF at the same time I was

in the RPF in 1977.

Q And on board the ship do you know what duties

or did you see what duties Miss burden fulfilled for

Mr. Hubbard?

 

 

 
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A Broadly, yes.

Q And what were those?

A She was a Junior messenger. And she ran messages

for Mr. Hubbard.

She also assisted the senior messengers; she also

cleaned the rooms of the senior messengers.

Q And was she working in Dunedin with you?

A Yes, she was.

Q And do you know whether or not she fulfilled any

personal services for Mr. Hubbard such as dressing him in

the morning?

A I don't have personal knowledge of that.

MR. LITT: Your Honor, what does that have to do with

anything?

Q BY MR. FLYNN: Do you know how old Miss Burden

was in 1977?

MR. HARRIS: Irrelevant, Your Honor. State of mind?

THE COURT: I don't know what her age has to do with

it. I'll sustain the objection.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: At some point in time did

Miss Burden leave the organization?

A Yes.

Q Did she go to her home in Las Vegas, Nevada?

A Yes.

MR. HARRIS: Your Honor, how does he know this?

MR. FLYNN: You are going to find out, Mr. Harris.

THE COURT: I assume it goes to his state of mind

concerning this routing project, whatever might occur.

 

 

 
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Q BY MR. FLYNN: You were sent by the organization

to get her?

A Yes.

Q Did you pick her up in Las Vegas and take her

to Los Angeles?

A Yes.

Q Was she locked in a room in Los Angeles?

A I don't know if she was locked in or not.

I turned her over to the RPF.

Q And do you know whether she was forced to sign

documents thereafter?

A I don't have personal knowledge of that.

Q Is it your testimony that in order to avoid that,

you left without doing this routing out procedure?

A Right.

MR. LITT: In order to avoid what, the that that he

doesn't know about?

THE COURT: What is it that you left to avoid?

THE WITNESS: The procedures of routing out which

included the signing of confessions, the signing of statements

of how much money I would owe the organization; the

statement of nonrelease and disclosure bond, more bonds, of

being imprisoned.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: And do you know whether it was

the practice to make people who left under those circumstances

to sign promissory notes to the organization?

A Yes.

 

 

 
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Q Now, after you left, Mr. Armstrong, what was

the next communication that you had with anyone from the

organization?

A I called right after --

MR. FLYNN: Let me withdraw that, Your Honor.

Q You testified you left on December 12;

correct?

A Yes.

Q Just prior to leaving were you requested to

sign certain documents?

A Yes.

Q Now these documents that you were asked to

sign, did these have anything to do with the type of documents

that you just testified a minute ago with regard to releases

and promissory notes and that type of thing?

A Yes, similar.

MR. FLYNN: May this be marked next in order, Your

Honor.

THE COURT: Okay, we are up to double M.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: Now how many days before you

left were you shown that document, Mr. Armstrong?

A About a week, a week, maybe 10 days.

Q And were you told to sign it?

A Yes.

Q And did you sign it?

A No.

Q And after seeing this document what was your

state of mind with regard to whether the other procedures

 

 

 
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you have testified about namely, the culling of PC files,

the forced confessions and the promissory notes, what was

your state of mind as to whether that was going to be

required of you if you routed it?

A I knew they'd be required.

Q Now, turning to page 3 of this exhibit, I

direct your attention to the third paragraph in which it says,

"I recognise and understand that neither Ron nor Mary Sue

Hubbard receive any compensation or remuneration from

training or processing by the church; that neither Ron nor

Mary Sue are officers or directors of the church, and that

neither of them are in any manner responsible for actions of

the church."

Q Did you read that at the time?

A Yes.

Q And did you know that to be true or false?

A It was false.

Q And did you refuse to sign it?

A Yes.

Q And what were the circumstances surrounding

your refusal to sign it?

A I read this and I simply decided that I would

not sign it. It was supposed to have been signed by

December 10, which was the day that this Church of Scientology

International was to come into being.

I had signed similar things, similar documents

recognizing and understanding apparently the same things

back in La Quinta and later in Los Angeles.

 

 

 
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I had signed probably 30 or 40 documents in the

whole time I was involved in the organization, and I

recognized that it was a fraud and I was being asked to sign

things that I did not believe, in and it was probably the

first time in the whole time that I was involved that I

read the document.

So, December 10 came along. I had already

decided to leave. I would not sign.

Q Now, were you developing an awareness of the

organization throughout the period of time that you were

working with Omar Garrison?

A Yes.

Q And did that awareness differ from the awareness

that you had over the prior nine years?

A Considerably.

Q And in what way did it differ?

A Previously I had felt that though I knew of

the organization engaging in lies and fraud, they were

excused in my mind because they were done to counter the

attacks of the enemy. It was very clear in my mind throughout

the first eight or nine years that there was an enemy that was

out to destroy mankind, out to destroy civilization, out to

get Mr. Hubbard and out to destroy his reputation, and our

destruction of the enemies was that answer to that. It was

a resolution of the problems that Mr. Hubbard and his

organization were running into.

After 1981, I began to see that the destruction

of anyone didn't resolve any problem; that, in fact, there

 

 

 
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was no enemy and that, in fact, all the frauds and the lies

that Mr. Hubbard and the organization had become involved in

were simply to give him wealth and power and I wanted no

part of it.

Q Now, when you were in the organization, were

you ordered to sign documents under oath which were false?

A Yes.

Q And did you do so?

A Yes.

Q And were you familiar with a policy called

TR-L "How to Outflow False Data Effectively"?

A I had never seen that policy, TR-L, until some

time later. I was drilled in the art of lying.

Q And how were you drilled?

A By being able to.

MR. LITT: I think we have heard this litany already.

THE COURT: Well, not on this subject.

THE WITNESS: By being able to create a shore story

or a cover and be able to successfully answer questions

regarding that shore story or cover without any flub, without

being caught in any lie.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: And were these drills conducted

with clay model mockups?

A We used clay model mockups. I don't recall

that I ever used this in connection with these drills.

Q And at some point in time did you see Intelligence

Specialist Training Routine TR-L?

A I saw this some time later.

 

 

 
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Q And when did you see that, Mr. Armstrong?

A This was in -- some time I believe in 1982 or

'83.

Q And when you saw that, did that conform to the

policy that you had experienced inside the organization?

MR. HARRIS: Well that really calls for a conclusion,

Your Honor.

THE COURT: Well you can ask him, I suppose, whether

it is consistent with it.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: Is it consistent with the policy

that you were drilled on while you were in the employ of

Mr. Hubbard?

A That is correct.

 

 

 
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Q Now, after leaving the organization, did you --

THE COURT: Did you ask that this be marked?

MR. FLYNN: Yes, Your Honor. I ask that that be marked

next in order.

THE COURT: We'll mark it NN for identification.

MR. LITT: Is that NN, Your Honor?

THE COURT: NN, yes.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: After leaving the organization

you testified that you went to Canada; is that correct?

A Yes.

Q How long did you remain up there?

A For about a week.

Q And then where did you go?

A Back to Utah.

Q And did you see Mr. Garrison at that time?

A Yes.

Q And was Mr. Garrison working on the biography

project?

A Yes.

Q And did you have any conversations with him

relative to your continued work on the biography project?

A I don't know if it ever came up at that time.

I did assist him at that time sorting out some

materials. And I built some shelves for him in Utah. But

I was not going to continue to work on it at that time.

Q Now, did you receive a communication from Vaughn

Young on or about December -- sometime after December 16,

1982?

 

 

 
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A Yes.

Q And what in general was the nature of that

communication, Mr. Armstrong?

A We had a number of questions which he sent to

me.

When I left the organization I left my parents'

address. And I said they could send any communications there

that they wanted.

I asked that they not be called because I didn't

want my parents harassed.

I asked that I not be harassed. But this is

mainly questions that he had because he then proceeded to

become the LRH archivist after me.

Q And he was asking questions about where to find

the materials and that type of thing?

A Right.

Q And he was looking for your cooperation?

A Yes.

Q Did you give him your cooperation?

A Yes.

Q What did you do?

A I called him sometime after this and I explained

to him -- I answered all of his questions basically.

There was once more when he was missing -- he

thought he was missing some materials. And I wrote to him

and explained where they were or what they contained and why,

perhaps, they were missing because someone else had been

interested in the same materials.

 

 

 
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There was another time when he said he couldn't

find particular materials which Omar Garrison was asking for.

So I went into the organization, into where the

archives were, and located them for him.

Q How much longer after you had left the organization

did you go back into the archives?

A I think it was probably February. I only went

in one time. I met with him once at his request. He wanted

to meet and I met with him.

He said that someone from the organization wanted

to meet with me. And he said that the person who wanted to

meet with me was Peter Alvette.

I declined because I knew that Peter Alvette was

one of the people in the GO intelligence bureau hierarchy.

So he said, "How about Terry Gamboa"?

I agreed to that and I met with Terry at his

request.

Q And when did that meeting take place?

A All of this took place in either January or

February.

Q And did you give Mr. Young your complete

cooperation with regard to finding things like the cord on

the Sony tape recorder?

A Yes; anything that he asked for, I tried to assist

him with in that way.

Q Did you take with you anything that belonged to

the organization when you left, Mr. Armstrong?

A No -- I should correct that.

 

 

 
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Q What is that?

A There were a number of slides which I had taken

in two trips, actually, one that I had done with Omar Garrison

up the Coast up to Washington State and into Montana, And

there was another set of slides which I had taken on the trip

which I did with Jocelyn into the Midwest.

I took those with me because I had not -- I had

all my notes on it, but I had not as yet identified them.

And so the day following our leaving, which would

be December 13, I called Barbara DeCelle, who was then out

in Gilman Sot Springs, and I explained to her that I had these

slides and that I -- when I got some time, I was going to

type up what exactly they were. No one else could do it.

They were meaningless to everyone but me. So I was going

to do that at that time.

Q Did you return those to her?

A I sent them in sometime later. I hadn't completed

it. I had done about half of it.

And there was an incident where some photos were

stolen, And I determined at that point, just to get rid of

anything which they could claim I had stolen, I delivered

the slides at that point to a friend of mine with a note to

give them to Barbara DeCelle.

Q When you want back in to see Mr. Young did you

do so at his request?

A Well, it was a combination of his request and

Omar Garrison's request.

Mr. Garrison was asking Vaughn Young for certain

 

 

 
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materials which Vaughn said he couldn't locate. I knew where

they were; so I went in and located them. And then

subsequently Mr. Young delivered those to Mr. Garrison,

Q What was your state of mind when you went back

to see Mr, Young?

A Well, I was pretty afraid of the whole thing.

I was developing at that point a sense that I was becoming

free of it and I didn't wish to antagonize the situation.

I felt that if I could chalk it up to being a

learning experience, I would be better for it. So I tried

to approach it in that light, without antagonizing anyone.

 

 

 
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I did have a lot of concerns and a lot of

questions because I felt like 13 years of my life had been

lost at that point and I felt like I really couldn't understand

the intricacies of Mr. Hubbard's mind and why he would do

what he did, so I had some questions and I probably voiced

some concerns. But generally I tried to remain on a pretty

amicable relationship with them and tried to help as I could.

THE COURT: Well we are about to take a recess.

Did you want this letter marked, Counsel?

MR. FLYNN: Please, Your Honor.

THE COURT: Okay, double O.

Fifteen minutes.

(Recess.)

THE COURT: All right, in the case on trial let the

record reflect that all counsel are present.

The witness has retaken the stand. Just state

your name again for the record, sir. You are still under

oath.

THE WITNESS: Gerald Armstrong.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: Now, Mr. Armstrong, when you

returned to the organization, do you recall what the date

was?

A No. I recall I believe that it was some time in

January or February 1982.

Q What was your state of mind at that time with

regard to returning to the organization?

A Well, I was pretty shook up and I was pretty

afraid, but I was willing to do it in order to help out

 

 

 
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Mr. Garrison. I made adequate preparations in advance of

doing it. Joscelyn was left outside the organization. I was

to return at a particular time, and in the event that I

didn't, then she would be alerted.

Q Now at some point you responded to Mr. Young's

letter; is that correct?

A I don't think I wrote anything in response to

that. I spoke to him about it. I wrote to him on another

subject some time later.

Q Now, was a Suppressive Person Declare issued

on you dated 18 February, 1982?

A Yes.

MR. FLYNN: May this be marked as next in order,

Your Honor?

THE COURT: Double P.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: Did you receive this Declare?

A Yes.

Q And when did you receive it?

A In approximately April 18th or April 15th,

April 15th through 20th, something in that period.

Q You received this one dated February 18, 1982

some time in April; is that correct?

A Yes.

 

 

 
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Q Now, in April did you receive a revision also

of this Declare?

A I received a revision sometime in May.

Q All right. When you received this Declare what

impact did it have on your state of mind at that time?

A It had a great deal of impact.

I was meeting at that point Marilyn Brewer who

was a friend of my wife's inside the organization. We met

for lunch. And it was during that lunch that she mentioned

that they had brought on the Declare on me. And she described

roughly what it was.

A day or so later I met Miss Brewer and she gave

me a copy.

At that time I had known a couple called Mike

and Kim Douglas. And they had been living with Mr. Hubbard

in the secret location in Hemet. And they left in the

beginning of 1980. And I had heard from various people that

Mr. Hubbard had issued an order regarding the Douglas'; that

they were not to be harassed and that there was to be no

Declare put out on them.

I had talked to various -- in meeting with Vaughn

Young I had mentioned that fact and I felt at the time that

because of the information that I had and the position that

I was in, that they would not want to bring out such a thing

on me.

I was quite shocked. It seemed like I had been

underestimating them. I had -- I was attributing to them

more decency than ought to be. And so I was quite shocked

 

 

 
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with this first one.

Q What is a suppressive person?

A Suppressive parson is anyone so declared by the

organization of Scientology or L. Ron Hubbard. It is someone

who the organization considers totally insane, evil, part

of the two and a half percent most evil people on the planet;

destructive; committing continual crimes.

Q Now, because of your 10 years -- 12 years in the

Church of Scientology did that Declare have a particular

effect on you with regard to knowing what a suppressive person

is?

A It had -- it did have a great deal of effect

because I felt up to that time that I had put in a great deal

of service for very little money.

I had been pawned; I had been ripped off; I had

been betrayed by Mr. Hubbard. Suddenly I was the suppressive

person. And I recognised that the Suppressive Person Declares

were only a black propaganda tool designed to within the

organization set up an atmosphere into which it then became

possible to commit more acts against the individual, to commit

more operations against him and to turn the weight of the

organization against him without anyone speaking out against

such acts.

So I attributed a lot of weight, a lot of

importance to the Suppressive Person Declare and the effect

it was going to have on my life thereafter.

Q Even though it is dated February l8, you didn't

receive it until sometime in April; is that correct?

 

 

 
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MR. LITT: This is the third time that question has

been asked.

MR. FLYNN: I'll withdraw it, Your Honor,

Q On February 24, 1982 did you send a letter to

Vaughn Young with regards to cooperating in providing materials

to Omar Garrison that couldn't be located?

A Yes.

Q And did you mail that to Mr. Young or did you

deliver it to him?

A Omar Garrison gave it to him for me.

Q And at that point in time what was your state

of mind with regard to trying not to antagonize Mr. Hubbard's

organization?

A That was how I -- how I approached them at that

time.

I sought to achieve some kind of live-and-let-

live basis with them.

Q Now, up to this point in time had anyone in the

organization charged that you had wrongfully taken any

documents or materials?

A No.

Q When was the first time that that charge was made

against you, Mr. Armstrong?

THE COURT: To your knowledge.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: -- to your knowledge?

A That was in the second Declare, the one that is

dated 22 April, 1982.

MR. FLYNN: I believe this has already been marked,

 

 

 

 
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Your Honor.

THE COURT: What about this letter to Vaughn --

MR. FLYNN: May that be marked, Your Honor?

THE COURT: QQ.

 

 

 
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MR. FLYNN: I believe exhibit M is the Suppressive

Person Declare of April 22, 1982.

Q Now, at some point in time did you receive

another Suppressive Person Declare?

A Yes.

Q And when was that?

A It would have been some time in May, in late

May, 1982.

Q What is your best memory as to when you received

the first one, Mr. Armstrong?

MR. LITT: That makes number four, Your Honor.

THE COURT: Well, I don't know; is that an objection,

Counsel?

MR. LITT: Asked and answered. That is the fourth time

that this question has been asked.

THE COURT: All right, sustained.

MR. FLYNN: I will withdraw it.

Q How did you receive the first Declare?

A I was given it, handed it by Marilyn Brewer.

Q And in the first Declare were you charged with

theft of any church property?

A No.

Q What specifically in the first Declare were you

charged with, Mr. Armstrong?

MR. HARRIS: Well, it speaks for itself.

THE COURT: It speaks for itself unless it needs to

be interpreted. I am not sure.

MR. FLYNN: I think it should be interpreted.

 

 

 
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THE COURT: All right.

THE WITNESS: The first charge was first crime or high

crime was secretly planning to leave and making private

preparations to do so without informing the proper terminal

in an Org and does leave and does not return within a

reasonable length of time.

The next one was spreading destructive rumor

about senior Scientologists, and the third one was announcing

departure from Scientology but not by reason of leaving an

organization, a location or situation or death.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: Now, when you received that

Declare, were you aware of a policy called the Fair Game

Doctrine?

A Yes.

MR. LITT: Your Honor, I take it we shouldn't renew

all of the objections that we made. We object to going into

Declares. We raised that beforehand, and I don't know whether

the court wants us to renew these.

THE COURT: I don't see any necessity for it. It is

there. We have ruled on it before.

If there is something new that comes up that

you want to object to, you are free to do so but certainly

everything that's been objected to or the court has ruled

on, there is no need to repeat it.

MR. FLYNN: Your Honor, may this exhibit be marked

next in order?

THE COURT: Double R.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: Now, exhibit double R has at the

 

 

 

 
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top "HCO Policy Letter of 18 August, 1967"; do you see that,

Mr. Armstrong?

A Yes.

Q What does HCO mean?

A Hubbard Communication Office.

Q And then there is a notation "Penalties for

Lower Conditions" and then at the bottom a notation "Enemy

SP Order."

What does "SP Order" mean?

A A Suppressive Person Order, a Declare.

Q And that is what you received in April; is that

correct?

A Yes.

Q And then there is the notation, "Fair game

may be deprived of property or injured by any means by any

Scientologist without any discipline of the Scientologist."

Were you familiar with that policy?

A Yes.

Q And what did it mean to you in April of 1982?

A I felt that I was the subject of that Suppressive

Person doctrine.

Q And then there is a notation, "May be tricked,

sued or lied to or destroyed"; do you see that?

A Yes.

Q And what did that mean to you?

A That in breaking out this Suppressive Person

Declare on me, that was their intention.

Q And it is copyrighted by L. Ron Hubbard; is

 

 

 
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that correct?

A Yes.

Q Now were you in possession of that time of

certain photographs that belonged to an individual named

Jim Dincalci?

A I obtained the photographs from Jim Dincalci

approximately April 24th, April 23rd or 24th, 1982.

Q And did you obtain possession of certain

photographs from Kima or Michael Douglas?

A Yes, from Kima Douglas, around the same date or

one day prior.

Q And how many photographs did you obtain from

Kima Douglas?

A Fifteen.

Q How many did you obtain from Jim Dincalci?

A Fifteen.

Q And did you have your own photographs from

the period that you on board the ship?

A Yes.

Q And how many photographs did you have?

A There was a complete photo album of them. There

was probably 30 or more.

Q And were these your own personal photographs

that you had taken?

A They were not photographs which I had taken,

but they were personal photographs.

Q And how long had you owned these photographs?

A Since 1974.

 

 

 
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Q And were they, for example, photographs of your

wedding to Terri Gellam Gamboa?

A Yes.

Q And under what circumstances did the photographs

of Kima Douglas and Jim Dincalci come into your possession?

A Some time in early 1982 I was planning at that

time to do the walk across the country and to do a book

from that walk having to do with hunger, and I was, having

gotten out of the organization, I didn't have any money.

 

 

 
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My wife was working at the time. I had worked for a brief

period at a law firm. I was then not employed, but I was

planning to do this. I needed some money. And I learned

from Virgil Wilhite, just in conversations with him -- because

he was at that time a friend of mine -- that he was interested

in the photographs which I had. This was the album. And

several of the photographs taken at my wedding were photos

of L. Ron Hubbard and there was then a market for photographs

of Mr. Hubbard. And the album did not have as much value

to me as it had when I was married to Terry Gamboa.

So I determined to sell it to Mr. Wilhite.

Additionally, he -- because I had, since getting

out of the organization, been friendly with the Douglas' and

the Dincelcis, they were all former close friends of mine

inside the organization who also worked personally for

Mr. Hubbard and we had a lot of, you know, old times to talk

over.

I learned from them that they had photos as well.

And they were interested in selling their photos.

I struck a deal with Mr. Wilhite. And he was

going to pay us each $2,000 for our respective sets of photos.

All of them were unique photos, not issued publicly by

Scientology or Mr. Hubbard. So there was a market for them.

Anyway, I went out -- I received a phone call

from Mr. Wilhite and he left it on my answering machine.

This was April 22.

He said at that point, "The deal is on. They

are sold. Bring them over."

 

 

 
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So I at that point drove out to Palm Desert to

where the Douglas' lived and picked up Kima's photos,

I prepared an album to contain these things and

I -- you know, I assembled them so that they were presentable.

I interviewed Kima at the time and she identified

each photo, the time they were taken, what they concerned.

And I typed up a little summary description of each photo

and I did the same thing with Jim Dincalci's photos.

I assembled all of this into a package and took

it to Mr. Wilhite.

Q What date did you take it to Mr. Wilhite?

A It would have been around the 25th, maybe the

25th, 26th of May or April, somewhere in that area.

Q But the agreement with Mr. Wilhite was made

April 22nd, the same date of the Suppressive Person Declare,

the second one; is that correct?

A Right. I never -- I wouldn't have gone out to

the Douglas' and picked up their photos and the same thing

with the Dincelci's photos until Mr. Wilhite told me that

he had clenched the deal. He claimed to be an intermediary.

He was selling them to someone else in, he said, Clearwater.

Q How much time prior to April 22nd had you begun

these negotiations with Mr. Wilhite about the photographs?

A I had mentioned my photos probably sometime when

I was inside the organization.

Later on I mentioned it again. And probably a

week or ten days prior to that, I had brought up the subject

of the other photos.

 

 

 
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Q A week or ten days prior to April 22nd?

A Perhaps a little more, but in that area.

Q Did you know whether or not Mr. Wilhite was in

contact with anyone inside the organization during that period

of time?

A He was in continual contact.

Q As it turned out?

A Well, he was the publisher of the book by

Mr. Hubbard, a little pamphlet called "The Way To Happiness."

He was at that time the owner of something called

Regent House, I believe it was Regent House Publications.

So he came into the organization; he dealt with

the people in the PR bureau extensively and on a continual

basis. And he dealt with Hubbard's representatives because

he was at that time publishing Hubbard's book.

Q So after you collected the photographs and put

them in the albums with the little notes, did you then go

and see Mr. Wilhite?

A Yes.

Q And that was on April 25th?

A It may have been a little later; it could have

been the 25th through the 27th, something like that.

Q And what happened then?

A Then he said he was going to send them off right

away to Clearwater and that he would get back to me.

Sometime later, a few days later, I called him.

And he said that the deal was off.

He said that he had been shown a Declare on me

 

 

 
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by a man by the name of Lyman Spurlock who Mr. Wilhite said

represented himself as an organization attorney and that he

had been shown this Declare on me and that Mr. Spurlock had

taken the photos.

So Mr. Wilhite told that to me over the phone.

And I was extremely shook up by this.

I said, "I am now driving up to Los Angeles --"

I was living in Costa Mesa at the time.

I said, "I'm driving up to Los Angeles. I want

either the photos or the money or I want to know what is going

on with these things."

I demanded the photos or the money.

He was at his house when I arrived. I took my

wife with me. And I asked Omar Garrison and his wife to go

along as well.

I went to Mr. Wilhite's house and he gave me back

my photos, but refused to give me the other photos.

Q The photos of Mr. Dincalci and Kima Douglas?

A Right. And he, again, reiterated --

 

 

 
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MR. LITT: May we just clarify one thing? His state-

ment that these photos belonged to the Dincalcis or the

Douglases is for his state of mind, I take it?

THE COURT: Well I gather that was told to him.

MR. LITT: Yes, that is my point.

MR. FLYNN: I am bringing them both in anyway, Mr. Litt.

MR. LITT: That is fine.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: Now, he refused to give you the

photographs of the Dincalcis and Kima Douglas; is that right?

A Right.

Q And at that time he indicated to you that he

knew of the existence of the Declare dated April 22nd; is

that correct?

A He didn't say at that point and I didn't know

at that point that a new one had already been issued.

Q You mean the revised one?

A Right. When he said he had been shown a

Declare on me, I thought he meant this one. What he meant I

don't know, but he said a Declare.

Q When you say "This one," you mean the one

dated February 18, 1982?

A Yes.

Q Now, at that tine you were aware of the Fair

Game policy which said "may be deprived of property or

injured by any means by any Scientologist without any

discipline of the Scientologist"; is that correct?

A Yes.

Q And he told you he knew of the existence of

 

 

 
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a Declare; is that correct?

MR. LITT: Objection; asked and answered.

THE COURT: Sustained.

BY MR. FLYNN: After he refused to return the

photographs of the Dincalcis and Kima Douglas, what did you

do, Mr. Armstrong?

A I then went to the CMO building in Los Angeles.

I went there because I knew that Lyman Spurlock was part

of Mr. Hubbard's legal mission and was, in fact -- was involved

with his accounts at that time.

I knew that the CMO building was where, at

least when I left, the LRH legal mission was located. That

was Terri Gamboa, Norman Starsky, and there was other people

in that special project, Julia Watson, and another couple

whose names I don't recall.

In any case I went to this building with my

wife and Mr. and Mrs. Garrison, and I asked at that point

for Lyman Spurlock at the door. Lyman Spurlock wasn't there.

I asked for Vaughn Young. Vaughn Young apparently

wouldn't come and talk to me.

Three other people showed up. One was John

Alesso and the third gentleman I don't recall his name.

I spoke to them at some length. I made

repeated demands for the photos to be returned to me. They

refused.

They said that they were with attorneys and I

was very incensed. I was extremely afraid. I was extremely

angry, and finally after probably half an hour of going back

 

 

 
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and forth, my demand and their refusal, Terri Gamboa appeared

and she ordered me off the property and said to get an

attorney.

So, that to me was the confirmation that I had

already been declared a Suppressive Person. Property had been

taken and now I was going to be sued for whatever they could

concoct, so following that incident I contacted the Douglases

and let them know. I contacted the Dincalcis.

The Dincalcis had just arrived back from seeing

Michael Flynn, and they talked to me about -- some time prior

to that, prior to the theft of the photos I knew that they had

gone and seen Michael Flynn and I knew how they perceived

Michael Flynn and how they were treated by Michael Flynn.

So when this incident happened with the photos, I again spoke

to the Douglas and in talking to them, determined to go see

Michael Flynn.

Q When did you make that determination,

Mr. Armstrong?

A It was within a few days of the incident with

the photos. My wife ,and I from that period on -- the same

night it happened we didn't sleep all night. I felt like I

was going to become the target of some operation of some

description, and I was extremely paranoid and it was at

that time that I sought you out.

Q Did you begin to carry a weapon at that time?

A I began to sleep with a big hunting knife by

my bed and I walked around throughout the night with this

knife. At the slightest sound I was awake. It went on for

 

 

 
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months. My wife would never be alone, refused to shower alone,

and we determined at that point that we had to become somewhat

more real about this whole subject than we had, and that it

would -- we could not run from the organization. We had to

take a stand and we had to confront them, and what developed

subsequently is what this lawsuit is all about.

Q Now, Mr. Armstrong, when did you come to see

me and where did you see me?

A I called you within probably a couple of days

of the photo incident and we had tried to make arrangements

so I could get there as soon as possible.

I had some things that I had to take care of.

You were at that point leaving for Clearwater, so we made

arrangements and you paid for my plane fare down to

Clearwater. It was within a few days of that. I believe I

arrived somewhere around 4 or 5 May, although I am not exactly

sure of the date.

Q Now when you came to Clearwater, did you bring

any documents with you that you had obtained from Mr. Garrison?

A The only documents which I intended to bring

down there was a document to show to Nibs, L. Ron Hubbard's

son. You had told me that the hearings were going to be going

on and that Nibs was going to be testifying in front of the

Clearwater hearings.

I felt quite -- I don't know, sorry, for Nibs

at that point. I felt like he was one of the bigger

victims of the organization and of Mr. Hubbard, and quite a

tragic figure and I took to him.

 

 

 
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He had been writing throughout the years to

his father or thought he was writing to his father, and

the letters, all except one in 1967, did not get to his

father. Probably 15 of the last letters that he ever wrote

to his father never got to him and they were derailed by

the organization, and the answers were written either by

LRH personal communicator, LRH Pers Sec or Mary Sue Hubbard.

I had from the documents, from the Pers Sec

files I had obtained a list of all the people who had been

writing to Nibs.

 

 

 
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And I took that to him to show to him because

he had been continually writing through the years, saying,

"I know somebody is writing. I know the s on one line is

a fraud. I know that no one is getting this."

And he is writing to his father and saying, "I

know you're not getting this."

And I just felt sorry for him. And knowing that

he was going to be there and, in fact, I had been a part of,

you know, a fraudulent operation against Nibs myself; so that

was why I took that particular document.

I had with me another document which was the --

it was a letter that Mary Sue had written to L. Ron Hubbard

in the mid 1950's. And it was a letter which, when I was

inside the organization, I tried to get to Mary Sue. It was

the only thing in the all the letters in there which I

considered of an actual personal nature.

Q Let me stop you right there.

Of all the documents that you then had under seal

this was the only letter that you thought was of a highly

personal nature; is that correct?

MR. HARRIS: I'm not sure I understand the predicate.

THE WITNESS: There were no documents under seal at

that point.

MR. FLYNN: I'll withdraw it.

Q Of all the documents that you collected for

Mr. Garrison, this particular document you had a question

about as to what should be done with it; is that correct?

A Yes.

 

 

 
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In late 1981, the fall of 1981 I had sought to

get a communication to Mary Sue, to write to her. And I was

told by Mr. Hubbard's special projects personnel that there

was no line of communication to Mary Sue and that I couldn't

send any letters.

Q This is late 1981?

A This is after her removal, sometime in the middle

of 1981.

So into October, November of 1961, I attempted

to communicate with Mary Sue. And I wanted to send to her

this one letter. And I was told that there was no line.

I knew at this point about her removal. I knew

how the hierarchy of the organization viewed her. I felt

like she was a tremendous victim of the organization and of

her husband and of the circumstances. And I -- that is why

I sought to get it to her and I happened to have it in my

briefcase at the time when I went and saw you.

I showed it to you at that time.

You said, "It is highly personal." You didn't

want anything to do with it.

Q And did you then thereafter try to return it to

Mary Sue Hubbard?

A Sometime later that year I was in communication

with Laurel Sullivan. Laurel Sullivan was in communication

with Mary Sue.

I asked Laurel Sullivan for Mary Sue's address

and Laurel sent it to me, the address. And she confirmed

that it was still a good address.

 

 

 
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Following that I did send it to that address.

This was sometime in August, 1982.

Apparently -- it sat for sometime somewhere at

that address which Mary Sue later said was some postal service

of some sort. And it was returned to my P.O. box sometime,

I believe, around the end of November, maybe sometime at the

end of November, December, 1982.

I had a deposition shortly following that and

I delivered the letter, my letter, the envelope, the unopened

envelope to Mr. Litt at the time.

 

 

 
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And is that envelope presently under seal if

you know?

A I have seen it there.

Q Now, this envelope, did it have handwriting on

it?

A Yes.

Q And did you recognize the handwriting?

A I believe that the handwriting was of David

Miscavige.

Q Now --

MR. LITT: Objection; no foundation for that.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: Were you familiar with Mr. Miscavige's

handwriting?

A Yes, it is printing.

Q Did you leave that letter in either the

possession of Contos & Bunch or me when you saw me?

A No.

Q Strike that.

Did you leave that letter in my possession when

you saw me, Mr. Armstrong?

A No.

Q Now, when you saw me, you explained the

circumstances surrounding your involvement with Mr. Hubbard;

is that correct?

A Yes.

Q And thereafter did I meet you in Los Angeles?

A Yes.

Q And when was that?

 

 

 
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A I believe it was the end of May. I don't know

the exact date, but somewhere, May or June 1982.

Q Now, in May 1982 did you know that you were

being followed by private investigators?

A Yes.

Q And how long had you been followed by private

investigators, if you know?

A I don't know.

I was only able to determine that we were being

staked out just briefly.

Q Incidentally, since I have been in Los Angeles

with you, have we been followed by private investigators?

A I believe so.

Q And have agents of the organization come in

and sat down where we have been eating breakfast at locations

outside the City of Los Angeles?

A That happened on one occasion.

Q Now, what is your best estimate as to how long

private investigators have been staking you out when I saw

you in late May 1982?

A Probably -- my wife and I perceived them,

someone watching the house and we were very aware at that time.

We felt that it was going on and we believed that we had

confirmed at some time in early May.

Q Do you recall the date in May that you received

these Suppressive Person Declare dated April 2, 1982?

A Not the exact date. It was near the end of

the month, about a week prior to my receipt of this thing.

 

 

 
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We either called or we spoke to Marilyn Brewer. I am not --

I don't recall now if I called her or she called me, but

I knew about the document and the contents roughtly maybe a

week or more before I received it. I received it some time

around the end of the month.

I knew about the existence when I met you

in Los Angeles May or June.

Q Now, thereafter did you send -- when you came

to Clearwater, did you become my client?

A Yes.

Q And after our meeting in Los Angeles, did you

begin to send me materials that you received from Omar Garrison

relative to the factual background you had found out about

L. Ron Hubbard?

A Yes.

Q And when you sent those materials, had you at

that point received the suppressive person declare, April 22,

1982 which, in effect, accused of lying about L. Ron Hubbard?

A Yes.

Q And it had accused you of theft at that point; is that correct?

A Yes.

Q And illegally taking or possession church

property; is that correct?

A Yes.

Q And some 18 other charges, many of which have

to do with speaking falsely about L. Ron Hubbard, is that

correct?

 

 

 
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A Yes.

Q Now, did I send you to a law firm in Los

Angeles called Contos & Bunch?

A Yes.

Q And were you instructed to send materials to

that firm, also?

A I just took materials. I took whatever I had

in the house at the time.

Q And were you having ongoing conversations with

Omar Garrison at this point in time?

A Yes.

 

 

 
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MR. LITT: Can we have a time frame on this last --

THE COURT: Maybe you can develop that, counsel.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: When did you first start sending

my office materials, Mr. Armstrong?

A It would have been sometime after the meeting

in May. So it would have been June, 1982.

Q And did you thereafter continue to send me

materials for a period of several months?

A Through approximately August, there was probably

four, maybe four occasions in which I sent you materials.

Q And throughout that period of time did you

continue to be followed?

A Yes.

Q And when did you send the materials to Contos and

Bunch?

A It would have been in July, maybe the beginning

of August. I am not sure of the exact date. It was sometime

briefly prior to being sued.

Q Now, approximately how much --

I believe we have already stipulated to that,

Your Honor, that three boxes came to me and two boxes went

to Contos and Bunch which have been sent to the court.

MR. HARRIS: We'll so stipulate if it has not been done.

THE COURT: All right.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: Now long did you get followed by

individuals, Mr. Armstrong, that you believed were working

for the Church of Scientology or L. Ron Hubbard?

A The last day that I know that it occurred was

 

 

 

 
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sometime in maybe around the 20th or 22nd or so of September,

1982.

And I have -- I believe I had seen people from

perhaps May forward and it greatly accelerated in August,

1982.

Q Now, would you describe some of the incidents

that occurred with regard to -- in connection with these

people following you?

A The first time when I was able to make a positive

identification was sometime in August. And it was a yellow

Volkswagen. And it was driven by a young man called Gregory

Osborne.

I was at that time in an apartment, the second

floor of a small building in Costa Mesa. And I had been --

I had seen this Volkswagen around for a few days.

Finally, I saw that it was parked across a wide

street, a boulevard, across from my house.

I snuck out to confirm. And I made my way over

there without the driver noticing.

And I accosted him at that time. And he had been

binoculars and a walkie-talkie. And that vas the first actual

confirmation.

I called the -- I stopped him from driving away

because I wanted -- he refused to identify himself. I thought

he was a Scientologist. I thought it was an operation. And

he refused to identify himself.

So -- and he started to drive away.

I put my leg under the wheel of his car so he

 

 

 
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would have had to crush my foot or my leg to get away. So

he didn't leave.

And I flagged down a passing motorcycle guy at

the same time; it took awhile to get someone to come by to

be willing to call the police.

But I called the police on that one occasion and

the police arrived after awhile. And they sent --

I explained to them what it was and who I believed

was ordering this operation.

Q You has been followed at this point for

approximately three months?

A Yes.

And so the police sent me away. And they,

apparently, took down his name and relevant material.

And a few days later I was able to obtain from

the Costa Mesa police a positive identification of who he

was and that sort of thing.

I wrote to the Costa Mesa police a number of

reports throughout this period. And they have, apparently,

been asked by the organization to produce these things, but

can't find them.

There was a series of incidents thereafter of

positive identifications, positive ID's of being followed.

And finally I was able to --

It was a Sunday morining sometime in August, I

believe August 29th, something like that. It was difficult

at first to identify them, but this one day -- it was daytime.

And so I took a camera and was able to get close enough to

 

 

 
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photograph the person. And I photographed the car.

He got out of the car and he began pushing me

around behind a building that was sort of a deserted building

nearby. And I felt this could be the end for me.

 

 

 
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I kept photographing him and then my wife just

happened to drive up. I had been screaming at her. She was

about 200 yards away across the street, and somehow she

either picked up and she saw this incident and came over, so

then there was the two of us.

And he would come toward me and the camera and

I told her to go look in his car and identify everything

that was in there, and so she went over to identify the

car and he'd go over to pull her away from the car and I'd

photograph him. This went on until he finally took off and

at the same time I had I.D.'d another car that was following

at the same time.

Q Is that a picture of the individual who pushed

you?

A Yes.

Q And that occurred behind the building?

A Well it was in front of a building, but it

appeared like he was pushing me around back around an end

of a building which would be out of sight.

Q So you felt he was pushing you out behind it?

A Yes.

Q And I believe these photographs have been seen

by counsel.

Were you taking a picture of him as he was

trying to push you?

A He was coming toward me at that point. That

was right at the beginning of the incident.

Q Now, other than that incident in which you

 

 

 
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were actually physically struck, did your car get struck by

some of these people following you?

A Well, not my car. The next incident where there

was any contact --

MR. FLYNN: May this be marked?

THE COURT: I guess we are up to double S.

MR. LITT: We would ask that the writing underneath

be stricken and only the photographs go in. The writing

is just a recounting of his testimony.

THE COURT: All right. The writing is -- it is the witness'

notes and I will strike that out.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: What was the next incident,

Mr. Armstrong?

MR. LITT: I am sorry, what was this marked as?

THE COURT: Double R.

THE CLERK: Double S.

THE WITNESS: From the date of this incident of the

shoving incident, it continued on a daily basis. I was

followed virtually daily from there on for a period of

time until it ended around September 22nd or so.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: Now this was after the lawsuit

had been brought; is that correct?

A Yes.

Q And to your knowledge after my office and the

office of Contos & Bunch were in communication with the office

of Mr. Peterson?

A I believe so.

Q And what occurred in this next incident?

 

 

 
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A Joscelyn and I were at that time working in a

law firm in Costa Mesa or in Newport Beach and at lunch we had

some business to do, so we drove -- at that time I was driving

a little, '71 Datsun, a little, tiny box of a car, and we

were driving, and I spot I am being followed by a Ford car that

I think is one of the cars involved in the incident of the

shoving incident, and I make sufficient turns to be able to

confirm that the guy is indeed following me. In fact, he

is staying right on my tail.

It is a very close surveilance and I stop at

one time and I wanted to talk to the guy to find out if he

was a Scientologist or a private investigator or to get him

to identify himself, find out what was going on because my

wife and I were just freaking out during this period.

I went up to his car and he took off and went

around the corner, and I again I was running up the street to

try and talk to him, and he pulled around the corner and

swerved toward me and clipped me on the elbow.

I again went to the police. I was a regular

customer at the Costa Mesa Police Station for a couple

of weeks, and I reported this incident and I reported

several other incidents throughout this period. The same

guy who hit me on the elbow was later driving another vehicle

and on the Newport Freeway he got right in front of me

and then slammed on his brakes, and I suppose in the hopes

that I was going to crash into him.

MR. LITT: Objection.

 

 

 
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THE WITNESS: There was another incident following

that.

THE COURT: It will be stricken.

THE WITNESS: Following that same incident of getting

in front of me and slamming on the breaks, he got beside me

and came across the dividing line as if to push me off the

road.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: When did that take place,

Mr. Armstrong?

A It would probably be in September.

I have pictures from that -- from that day-to-

day account of what happened each day. Each day I typed up

whatever happened during that day,

Q And did take pictures of some of the vehicles

and the people who were engaged in this activity throughout

this period of time?

A Yes.

Q And to your knowledge was this after this court

had issued a temporary restraining order with regard to the

return of the documents?

A Yes.

MR. LITT: "This" being what? What is the "this"?

MR. FLYNN: These activities.

MR. LITT: Which activities, the ones regarding the

stopping of the car in front of Mr. Armstrong and the purported

running off the road?

Q BY MR. FLYNN: When you got run off the road,

Mr. Armstrong was that after the temporary restraining order

 

 

 
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was issued?

A Yes.

Q And with regard to the car slamming on its breaks

in front of you, was that after the temporary restraining

order?

A Yes.

MR. FLYNN: Your Honor, may the record indicate that

the temporary restraining order was issued on August 24, 1982?

THE COURT: I'll have to go through all of those files;

is that correct?

MR. LITT: I think the court has already taken judicial

notice of the temporary restraining order including the date.

Q BY MR. FLYNN: Did these incidents occur in

September, 1982?

A Yes.

Q And the latter part of August, after 24th, 1982?

A Yes.

Q Were you closely followed everywhere you went

during this period of time?

A During a great deal of it, yes.

Q And --

MR. LITT: Which period of time?

MR. FLYNN: August and September of 1982.

THE WITNESS: Yes.

Q BY MR. FLYNN; And were you under surveillance

at work?

A Yes.

Q And at your home?

 

 

 
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A Yes.

Q And wherever you went?

A Yes.

Q And at some point in time did you live in a

trailer park during this period?

A Yes.

Q Where was that located?

A That was -- it was in the same location as the

apartment.

We moved to the trailer park on the first of

September, 1982; moved to the trailer. The whole thing was

in a trailer park.

Q And did you observe individuals close to your

bedroom window looking into your bedroom window during this

period of tire?

A I observed they were able to look into my

bedroom window.

I could see them from my bedroom window. I could

see a car. And I photographed the people within six feet

of my bedroom window.

Q And how long -- over how long a period of hours

did these individuals look into your bedroom window?

A I don't know that they looked into the bedroom

window. They had the capacity to.

They were observed by a neighbor looking over

the fence into my trailer.

MR. LITT: Objection. Move to strike.

THE COURT: It will be stricken as hearsay.

 

 

 
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MR. FLYNN: Your Honor, if we could suspend it at this

time, I have another matter to take up with the court of some

importance with regard to a deposition subpoena that was

served on Dr. Denk.

THE COURT: We'll recess this case until 9:30 Monday

morning.

Do you want to stay in session on this other

matter, or what?

MR. FLYNN: Yes, Your Honor.

THE COURT: You may step down,

MR. FLYNN: Your Honor, we obtained in-hand service

of Dr. Denk who we consider to be a critical witness for the

defense for the following reason -- and he was to appear today

and he didn't appear. We have received recent information

and -- I'm not real sure about the total reliability of this

information. It is hearsay coming to me second-hand. But

what I an told is that Dr. Denk last night was called out

of town for several weeks on an emergency, medical emergency,

and will not return for several weeks.

My concern is that ---- I filed the subpoena in

court. My concern is that Dr. Denk will appear during this

trial because we believe that he has very significant evidence

on several points, including the present whereabouts of

L. Ron Hubbard to enable us to call Mr. Hubbard as a witness

for the defense and also with regard to a project that

Mr. Armstrong worked on with Dr. Denk in connection with the

Nobel Peace Prize project to confirm Mr. Armstrong's

testimony.

 

 

 
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And, lastly, with regard to the physical condition

of Mr. Hubbard who we believe that Dr. Denk examined in

October of 1983.

MR. HARRIS: Your Honor, I received --

THE COURT: I don't know what it is you want me to do.

Do you want me to issue a body attachment? I

can issue a body attachment. It may never get served.

MR. DRAGOJEVIC: Your Honor, I received a telephone

call from an attorney who claimed to be representing him last

night about 7:30. He acknowledged that Dr. Denk had been

served and asked me to place him -- the attorney -- on call

because he claimed that he was going to come in to make a

motion to quash the subpoena.

I told him that I would be willing to work with

Dr. Denk's schedule if he couldn't be present this morning

if I had a sighed agreement by Dr. Denk that he would appear.

The attorney said that he was not willing to

do that.

He subsequently called me back even later in the

evening and said that he might be able to obtain such an

agreement from his client.

And I indicated that I would accept a signed

agreement. And then he never called me back.

So apparently he has acknowleaged service. He

just simply did not appear this morning.

We would like a body attachment and a contempt

issued.

MR. HARRIS: Unless Dr. Denk is represented by

 

 

 
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two attorneys, counsel, could you, please, state the name

of the attorney representing Dr. Denk?

MR. DRAGOJEVIC: I believe it was a Robert Burke.

MR. HARRIS: I had a conversation with a Robert Burke

at approximately 7:30 last night, Your Honor, who indicated

to me that he was in trial, but he would be moving to quash

the subpoena. And he did not feel that there was proper

service.

I said, well, it is up to him, but I can't speak

for him. And if Your Honor wants to hear from him, maybe

I can get hold of him and he can be here Monday morning.

THE COURT: Well, he is not here at this midnight hour

on this case; I mean, we have had years to prepare for this

case; people have businesses to conduct; doctors have

patients.

I notice that he was served at 8:20 a.m. on

May 10th to be here in court on May 11th.

MR. DRAGOJEVIC: We were willing to work around his

schedule, Your Honor. That wasn't the problem. If he

couldn't have appeared today, Mr. Burke should have just

indicated to me that his client would appear on another date.

But he wasn't willing to indicate that to me.

MR. HARRIS: He is not on the witness list either,

Your Honor, if that is of any importance, Dr. Denk.

MR. FLYNN: We received the information that he has

knowledge about L. Ron Hubbard's present location only

recently, Your Honor.

THE COURT: well, you don't really think there is a

 

 

 
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snowball's chance to try to find Mr. Hubbard, do you?

MR. FLYNN: Your Honor, we -- he succeeded in 30 years

of avoiding legal process all over the world. So I suppose

Your Honor is correct. But I do think we should make the

effort. On behalf of my client, it is my obligation to make

the effort; whether that effort will succeed, Your Honor may

be and probably is absolutely correct. But I believe it is

my obligation to make the effort.

 

 

 
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THE COURT: Well, I will find that there appears to

have been a properly issued civil subpoena to appear in court

this morning.

There apparently was no appearance, so I will

issue a body attachment.

I will hold the body attachment for one week,

May the 18th and you can advise counsel if he wants to make

some motion with reference to it, to do it before that time,

otherwise it will issue.

MR. HARRIS: I will undertake that responsibility.

THE COURT: All right; is that it then?

Okay, then we will reconvene on Monday at

9:30.

(At 3:52 p.m. the proceedings were

adjourned until Monday, May 14, 1984

at 9:34 a.m.)

 

 

 

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